Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Global Warming

Oh, here's Coburg Tiger's post from way back when he points out "more CO2 is greening the planet" fallacy.

@LeeToRainesToRoach rolls out the same tired tropes year after year.

I normally don't comment too much on the science here because I'm not a climate scientist, and can't do much more than just point out what all the climate scientists are saying. But since you've shifted over to plant biology, which is more my wheelhouse, I thought I'd just clarify something here.

Seeing you've now jumped the narrative across to 'increased CO2 and temperatures is actually a good thing' and you're using the greening misconception as an example, it's worth noting the inaccuracies here.

Despite CO2 being a vital input into photosynthesis (acting as the source of carbon to create monosaccharides used in cellular respiration), an increased CO2 concentration doesn't always lead to increased plant growth on large scales. You will certainly find that trend in isolation, and on small scales and, critically, when no other factors are limiting, but it's not an ongoing linear relationship.

There are a number of other conditions, chemical inputs, enzymes and coenzymes that determine the efficiency of, not only photosynthesis, but also plant growth. Limit any of those and you can pump in as much CO2 as you want, it's not going to matter. It's possible that a slightly higher global CO2 concentration may result in more efficient photosynthesis, and more plant growth, but that trend does not continue ad infinitum, nor does it take into account the secondary changes to environmental conditions associated with CO2 increase that will be detrimental to crop production.

Humorously, as photosynthesis, respiration, and most other biochemical processes in plants are enzyme mediated, temperature is a really important condition for their efficiency. Also, any year 12 Biology student could tell you that increasing the substrate (CO2) of an enzyme mediated reaction will only increase efficiency up to a point.

What's also funny is that a lot of the current observed greening is attributed to the warming of the planet, associated with increased CO2 concentration (an association you dispute), not necessarily the CO2 increase itself, because areas that have previously been too cold for productive plant growth are suddenly warm enough to support more plant life. This sounds like a good thing until you realise that a) that's not necessarily crops we can use and b) that is not a trend that will continue. We are not quite at optimum, but we're going to overshoot it pretty quick.

But realistically, you would know this already if you had actually read the article you linked, which says “Studies have shown that plants acclimatize, or adjust, to rising carbon dioxide concentration and the fertilization effect diminishes over time.”

This is due to both significant limiting factors in the availability of things like phosphorus, nitrogen, or even water in the soil, the enzymes facilitating metabolic processes, and temperature itself.

If you want, you can pick up a CO2 probe, some plants, a couple of plastic tubs and test a lot of these ideas yourself. I know I have. Nothing beats first hand data.

Though second hand stuff works too:
 
Meanwhile Barnaby is claiming he only had four hours to read up on the proposed LNP climate response policy so he's thrown a spanner in the works.

The pricks have had 8 years to come up with something.


Thanks to the LNP and the denialists amongst us - Australia could be a superpower in renewables. If only we could go back in time and kick those idiots out.
 
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There really is no "ideal" future state temp because of the unpredictability of climate drivers that a warmer planet in general could mean a freezing northern Europe, which would make many people unhappy. As mentioned the increase of tropical diseases outweighs the benefit, if there is one, from fewer extreme cold deaths. Even if we knew an "ideal" temp, getting there would be fraught with danger.
Nothing exists in a vacuum. A malaria vaccine got the green light only this month.

Never claimed that seeking to change climate was advisable, just that perhaps it's going to change anyway.
 
Meanwhile Barnaby is claiming he only had four hours to read up on the proposed LNP climate response policy so he's thrown a spanner in the works.

The pricks have had 8 years to come up with something.


Thanks to the LNP and the denialists amongst us - Australia could be a superpower in renewables. If only we could go back in time and kick those idiots out.

F*ucken Idiots.

DS
 
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Nothing exists in a vacuum. A malaria vaccine got the green light only this month.

I'll translate for you: "Yes, the prevalence tropical diseases are increasing and expected to increase drastically as the tropical bands shift, but that's ok, we may have vaccines for all these things one day"
 
Nitpicking. Similar findings have been made elsewhere.

Nitpicking? The authors of the paper he cites disagree with Lomberg's interpretations. How is that nitpicking?




Study of Illinois only. Last time I checked Chicago is pretty *smile*' cold in winter. FFS you really don't read anything you cite.


This dude on his poorly formatted blog page only looks at cold climate countries. And the references are to research done in 1995. OMG it was written in MS Word to HTML, which dates it from a long time ago. <META NAME="Template" CONTENT="Macintosh HD:Applications:Microsoft Office 98:Templates:Web Pages:Blank Web Page"> . Please try harder Lee.



This article doesn't even talk about heat/cold differential deaths.

 
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Oh, here's Coburg Tiger's post from way back when he points out "more CO2 is greening the planet" fallacy.

@LeeToRainesToRoach rolls out the same tired tropes year after year.
My comment stated only what is currently improving and contained the qualifier that it "won't continue forever, of course". But once again you try to twist what I posted.

Earlier onset of spring and longer growing seasons are likely to continue to be of benefit in the short term.
 
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My comment stated only what is currently improving and contained the qualifier that it "won't continue forever, of course".

And even that was wrong. As Coburger made clear there is pretty much no advantage to increased plant growth due to CO2.
 
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So I assume from all of these claims about warming apparently being good and spring coming earlier etc that Lee is finally admitting that global warming is real and is off to the next step in the denier playbook, which is that, apparently, it's all fine to chuck billions of tonnes of pollution into the atmosphere and alter the climate in ways we cannot control and we don't know the full extent of the impact.

Yeah, let's experiment on planet Earth, no problem, there must be other habitable planets out there . . . somewhere?

DS
 
And even that was wrong. As Coburger made clear there is no advantage to increased plant growth due to CO2, forget about a vaguely cuntish qualifier like "it won't continue forever of course".
The 2019 Global Agricultural Productivity Report, "Productivity Growth for Sustainable Diets, and More," released today by Virginia Tech's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, shows agricultural productivity growth... is growing globally at an average annual rate of 1.63 percent.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191016074750.htm

The key words being "is growing".
 
So I assume from all of these claims about warming apparently being good and spring coming earlier etc that Lee is finally admitting that global warming is real and is off to the next step in the denier playbook, which is that, apparently, it's all fine to chuck billions of tonnes of pollution into the atmosphere and alter the climate in ways we cannot control and we don't know the full extent of the impact.

Yeah, let's experiment on planet Earth, no problem, there must be other habitable planets out there . . . somewhere?
It's almost like you're new to this site and haven't followed any of the discussion...
 
The 2019 Global Agricultural Productivity Report, "Productivity Growth for Sustainable Diets, and More," released today by Virginia Tech's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, shows agricultural productivity growth... is growing globally at an average annual rate of 1.63 percent.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/10/191016074750.htm

The key words being "is growing".

Sorry I'm pointing this out, but you can't read.

From the article you cite - productivity is growing because:

Productivity growth is generated by such innovations as precision agriculture technology and improved seeds and best practices for nutrient management and animal health. Attention to ecosystem services, such as pollination and erosion prevention, can increase and sustain productivity gains over time.

The GAP Report looks at the powerful combination of agricultural technology, best farm management practices, and attention to ecosystem services in supporting productivity growth, sustainability, and resilience.

Historically, productivity growth has been strongest in high-income countries, such as the U.S, with significant environmental benefits.
Due to widespread adoption of improved agricultural technologies and best farm management practices, especially in high-income countries, global agricultural output has increased by 60 percent, while global cropland has increased by just 5 percent during the past 40 years.
 
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The 2019 Global Agricultural Productivity Report, "Productivity Growth for Sustainable Diets, and More," released today by Virginia Tech's College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, shows agricultural productivity growth... is growing globally at an average annual rate of 1.63 percent.


The key words being "is growing".

And?

The report states:

Innovative agricultural technologies and best farm
management practices, combined with attention to
ecosystem services, drive productivity growth and can
be tailored for all scales of agricultural production.

You are clearly trying to somehow tie this to global warming, which is dishonest as the report does not make this claim.

In fact they point to climate change as a threat to the natural resource base.

The report states:

Despite the sustainability progress made in the U.S. and
higher-income countries, producers have recently put
more land into production and intensified input use as
they struggle to adapt to the booms-and-busts of the
agricultural markets. Soil health, water quantity and
quality, increasingly severe weather events, a warming
climate, uncertainty in agricultural markets, and an aging
agricultural workforce all pose significant threats to
future productivity gains.

You might want to actually read what you cite.

DS
 
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So what about research that actually talks about CC impact on agriculture? Green means gain, yellow neutral, brown a decrease in yield.

1634543774649.png

So pretty mixed. Some crops benefit, others not. And we also have decreases due to weather events, increased pest infiltration, etc etc. But anyways,

1634543886288.png


Ultimately we will have to live with climate change, because we can't go back to the temperatures of the last couple of centuries. But let's not pretend we will be better off. We won't.
 
And even that was wrong. As Coburger made clear there is pretty much no advantage to increased plant growth due to CO2.

But whatever dude, get all butt-hurt about it.
It's almost like there were no jungles on Antarctica at 1000ppm...

wLDbztqd735NUEzMPd6Hic.jpg


Will do wonders for tourism.

I note China's President isn't going to Glasgow, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about regarding Morrison attending. Hardly seems worth it without the world's biggest polluter.
 
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No humans at 1000ppm either.

So Xi is not going to Glasgow and this is to be condemned, fair enough.

But then if the coal touting ScoMo also decided not to go would he not be subject to the same condemnation or do you just reserve this for those you don't like?

DS
 
It's almost like there were no jungles on Antarctica at 1000ppm...

wLDbztqd735NUEzMPd6Hic.jpg

And you accuse me of deliberate misinterpretation. Ah well, never mind.

I note Jinpingpong isn't going to Glasgow, so I'm not sure what the fuss is about regarding Morrison attending. Hardly seems worth it without the world's biggest polluter.

And some casual racism as well! Nice.

Anyway, I've worked out your MO. Panic, google, and post something based on the title. Then call us *smile* when we point out you haven't read it.
 
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But then if the coal touting ScoMo also decided not to go would he not be subject to the same condemnation or do you just reserve this for those you don't like?
I'm not sure whether Morrison should be there or not. He should be doing whatever's best for Australia.
No humans at 1000ppm either.
Lots of megafauna though. Life going gangbusters.
 
And you accuse me of deliberate misinterpretation. Ah well, never mind.



And some casual racism as well! Nice.

Anyway, I've worked out your MO. Panic, google, and post something based on the title. Then call us *smile* when we point out you haven't read it.

He's run away from the Agriculture Report now that it didn't say what he wished it said.

Pretty embarrassing really, took all of 7 minutes to mow down the distortion he was attempting there.

DS