Global Warming | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

Global Warming

This Is Anfield said:
.....
Most of my family live up the Seville/Warburton areas & over the years there has been a lot of local talk about less burnoffs, access to fire tracks & shire interference in land clearing etc.

....

What do you mean by land clearing and the shire interference? I'm not sure if land clearing happens here either. I guess the suitability of burns would be influenced by how populated the surrounding areas are.

This article is the first one I found in a quick search. It mentions 600 controlled fires for the 2011 season (usually done in Autumn) in Vic covering over 110,000 hectares

The arm is swollen, weak, sore and driving me bonkers. Thanks for asking :hihi
 
Oh ok. A few issues with that here too. Can clear scrub etc but not fell trees...although that's been relaxed a lot since the Black Saturday fires.
 
rosy23 said:
Oh ok. A few issues with that here too. Can clear scrub etc but not fell trees...although that's been relaxed a lot since the Black Saturday fires.

May have been relaxed up there as well - will ask my sister when I see her.
It's very lush up there at the moment so if we have a hot dry spell. :(
 
poppa x said:
No.
Livers to the best of my knowledge and without putting words in his mouth, has never agreed with your first sentence ("The climate isn't changing"), so your assertions flowing from this sentence can be ignored.

As PT said you can disregard the first line if you like the rest still holds.
On LIvers, he seems to have conflicting views on climate change. says he doesnt discount the possibility that the climate is changing, but doesnt think it is 'man-made'. he then spends much time refuting the evidence.

Liverpool said:
It seems as soon as we get a hot day or something out of the ordinary...."oh, thats proof its climate change"
Heck, I remember when the bushfires surrounded Mt.Buller at Christmas time and there was a cold snap and snow, in the middle of summer, helped put out the fires.......no grumbling about global warming then! ;)

Firefighters celebrate a white Christmas
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/firefighters-celebrate-a-white-christmas/2006/12/25/1166895230027.html

Liverpool said:
Climate change is the "fad" at the moment, so it seems anything to do with the weather, then a fabricated link will be made to keep pushing the agenda.
 
i reckon this article kinda reinforces my previous statement.
though admittedly a small sample, most economists surveyed are in favour of a price on carbon to combat climate change. the two who favour the LIbs policy do not actually want any action taken.

http://www.watoday.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/tony-abbotts-new-direct-action-sceptics-20131027-2w9va.html

Tony Abbott's new direct action sceptics

Leading economists have overwhelmingly rejected Tony Abbott's direct action climate change policy and backed carbon pricing.
A Fairfax Media survey of 35 prominent university and business economists found only two believed direct action was the better way to limit Australia's greenhouse gas emissions. Thirty - or 86 per cent - favoured the existing carbon price scheme. Three rejected both schemes.

Debate rages as economists concur.
Internationally renowned Australian economist Justin Wolfers, of the Washington-based Brookings Institution and the University of Michigan, said he was surprised that any economists would opt for direct action, under which the government will pay for emissions cuts by businesses and farmers from a budget worth $2.88 billion over four years.

Professor Wolfers said direct action would involve more economic disruption but have a lesser environmental pay-off than an emissions trading scheme, under which big emitters must pay for their pollution.
BT Financial's Dr Chris Caton said any economist who did not opt for emissions trading "should hand his degree back".

Any economist who didn't opt for emissions trading "should hand his degree back", says Chris Caton. Photo: Tamara Voninski
The survey comes as the Abbott government prepares to introduce legislation next month to repeal the carbon price scheme and as debate rages over whether climate change is linked to bushfires.
Mr Abbott last week said he accepted climate change was real, but suggestions that it was linked to fires was "complete hogwash".
In 2011, Mr Abbott took a swipe at some who had criticised the Coalition's scheme, saying "maybe that's a comment on the quality of our economists rather than on the merits of argument''.
The extraordinary challenge of limiting global warming to less than 2 degrees - the level scientists consider necessary - was underlined by a new report by European consultants Ecofys that found Australia would have to cut emissions by at least 27 per cent by 2020 to play its part.
Australia has a bipartisan target of 5 per cent below 2000 levels by 2020. The Climate Change Authority - set up by Labor and which the Coalition plans to abolish - will this week release its draft recommendation on Australia's 2020 target.
The carbon scheme started as a fixed price - or tax - and is due to become an emissions trading scheme in July 2015. A trading scheme places a cap on emissions and requires big emitters to buy a permit for every tonne of carbon dioxide they release. Permits can be traded, allowing businesses that cut emissions to save money.
Several economists surveyed said the weight of international evidence showed that carbon dioxide emissions could be reduced more efficiently through a broadbased market mechanism such as a trading scheme. "That seems to be the way that the major economies are headed - not uniformly, unfortunately," CBA economist Michael Workman said.
Some said the direct action plan would rely too much on bureaucratic decisions. "If I had to make a choice between pricing carbon and having bureaucrats allocating permits, then I'm going to go for the market mechanism every time," said Rob Henderson, a National Australia Bank senior economist.
But Australian National University professor Warwick McKibbin said none of the policies on offer in Australia were sufficiently robust. He said the direct action plan could achieve emission reductions, but at higher cost per unit than a well-designed carbon price.
Professor McKibbin predicted a hybrid policy would eventually be adopted.
University of Queensland professor Paul Frijters, one of two economists who favoured the Coalition approach, said he would not describe it as "direct action" but simply as "no action".
"I think the government's current policy of 'no policy' is exactly the right one to take for a small country like Australia," he said.
Commsec's Craig James, who also supported the Coalition's policy, said the standard economic assumption that markets could solve almost anything was not right. He said markets could fail and might be the wrong response to an environmental problem.
"The attempts that the Europeans have made so far have been less than stellar," Mr James said.
Mr James also said he was sceptical that humans were having a serious impact on climate.
A spokesman for the Environment Minister, Greg Hunt, did not respond directly to the survey results, but said the Australian people had voted to repeal the carbon tax.
"The simple fact is the carbon tax does not work," he said.
"The Coalition Government is committed to reducing Australia's domestic emissions by 5 per cent by 2020. Labor's carbon tax will not achieve this target. Domestic emissions are set to rise from 560m tonnes to 637m tonnes, between 2010 and 2020, under the carbon tax. Labor's carbon tax does a lot of damage to households and businesses, yet it doesn't even do the job."
 
Brodders17 said:
On LIvers, he seems to have conflicting views on climate change. says he doesnt discount the possibility that the climate is changing, but doesnt think it is 'man-made'. he then spends much time refuting the evidence.

No conflicting views whatsoever mate.
Where have I totally discounted climate change at all?
 
New coal developments that will dwarf all that have come before it in the Galilee Basin in Queensland, multiple coal ports along the Great Barrier Reef, including the 2 biggest in the world, the PM retreating from and scorning the first, (probably too little too late) small steps toward a low carbon economy, and pandering to extreme anti-environment forces while he's at it.

Its obvious from all this that a majority of Australians don't give a stuff about the environment, at least not after they're dead.
 
tigersnake said:
New coal developments that will dwarf all that have come before it in the Galilee Basin in Queensland, multiple coal ports along the Great Barrier Reef, including the 2 biggest in the world, the PM retreating from and scorning the first, (probably too little too late) small steps toward a low carbon economy, and pandering to extreme anti-environment forces while he's at it.

Its obvious from all this that a majority of Australians don't give a stuff about the environment, at least not after they're dead.

Unfortunately true TS.
 
Tigers of Old said:

It is very sad, and compounded by the Premier we have in Queensland, who is doing stuff that makes Joh look not so bad (I actually think he's a bit of a nut, which is very concerning considering the stakes). I'm optimistic by nature, but its not looking good.
 
One third of Australia's media coverage rejects climate science, study finds An academic study has found that 32% of articles dismissed or questioned the link between human activity and climate change

One third of articles in Australia’s major newspapers rejected or cast doubt on the overwhelming findings of climate science, with climate sceptic Andrew Bolt monopolising coverage of the topic in several high-circulation News Corporation titles, according to a new analysis.

A study of 602 articles in 10 newspapers by the Australian Centre for Independent Journalism found that 32% dismissed or questioned whether human activity was causing the climate to change. The articles were analysed between February and April in 2011 and again in the same period in 2012.

Significantly, newspapers based a small fraction of their coverage on peer-reviewed science, instead relying heavily on comment pieces penned by writers without a scientific background.

According to the research, the number of articles on climate science decreased in 2012 compared to the previous year, although the tone became more sharply sceptical of the established scientific position in this period.

When measured according to words allocated to an article, 31% did not accept established climate science in 2011, with this number rising to 44% in 2012.

The high levels of scepticism were driven by the editorial leanings of market-leading News Corporation titles and, in particular, its syndicated columnist Andrew Bolt, the study found.

There were 97% of comment pieces in the Herald Sun which either questioned or rejected the view of the vast majority of climate scientists – which has ironically also been measured at 97%.

Bolt, who regularly rails against the established science of climate change in print and on his Channel Ten TV show, dedicated 49% of his words in the surveyed period to climate science, writing sceptical articles for the Herald Sun, the Advertiser, NT News and the Daily Telegraph.

“Bolt describes those who support the consensus position as ‘warmists’ who are by definition driven by ideology and are unreliable,” the report states. “News Corp does not balance Bolt’s voice with climate science journalism, which leaves him as the dominant voice on climate science for many of his readers.”

The latest IPCC report, collated from findings from 800 of the leading climate scientists around the world, found there was “unequivocal” evidence that the burning of carbon-intensive fuels was the main driver of the 0.89C rise in average temperature since 1900.

Domestically, climate scientists recently rounded on an article in the Australian with the headline ‘We got it wrong on warming, says the IPCC.” The newspaper subsequently retracted some of the claims made in the piece.

In News Corporation titles, the Australian Centre for Independent Journalism study found a preference towards mentions of climate change in opinion pieces, rather than in news reporting, with more than half of words on the topic in 2012 appearing in the comment section.

“By turning climate science into a debate, skepticism occupies space in Australian non-skeptic media that might otherwise be given to articles covering climate science,” the report said.

In 2012, 45% of the articles in the two mass-selling News Corporation tabloids – the Herald Sun and the Daily Telegraph – rejected the established science of climate change, while 33% questioned it.

While just 34% of articles across all News Corporation titles acknowledged the science as valid, 85% of Fairfax titles – which include the Sydney Morning Herald and the Age – accepted the scientific position on climate change.

The divergence between the two rival newspaper companies appears to be widening, with acceptance of the science increasing in Fairfax articles between 2011 and 2012 and declining in the News Corporation tabloids.

However, both businesses largely overlooked peer-reviewed research in their coverage of climate science. Just 1% of News Corporation articles referred to peer-reviewed science, compared to 15% in Fairfax.

The report also found large geographical disparities in coverage of climate science. While the Sydney Morning Herald was most likely to prominently place stories about climate science, followed by the Australian, the West Australian and the NT News had very little news on the topic.

“Andrew Bolt is the dominant voice on climate science by a long way, although I wouldn’t personalise it on him because it’s the editors and corporate managers who give him the space in the newspaper,” Wendy Bacon, author of the report, told Guardian Australia.

“There’s an editorial decision to heavily promote him and people like Piers Akerman and Miranda Divine, who are vehemently angry with climate scientists.”

Bacon said it was an “extraordinary” situation for Australia’s largest circulation newspaper publisher to not report the position of 97% of the world’s climate scientists.

“We have one of the most concentrated media landscapes in the world,” she said.

“I think this really puts the concentration of ownership back on the agenda. This is a real political problem.”

The study is a follow-up to a similar analysis done by the Australian Centre for Independent Journalism in 2011, which found overwhelming negative coverage of the then Labor government’s handling of the carbon pricing legislation.

In response to the ACIJ study, News Corporation said in a statement:

"News Corp and its newspapers do accept the scientific consensus. There is no company edict on the line to take – editorial control rests with the editors.

“News Corp Australia’s internationally recognised environmental sustainability program One Degree has resulted in the company reducing its carbon emissions by 19% since 2006.”

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/30/one-third-of-australias-media-coverage-rejects-climate-science-study-finds
 
Honestly I don't get it. Dr Karl is beloved and a great media performer (in fact wouldn't it be great if Q&A did a special with just him? Let's celebrate our own scientists!) and a speaker of truth and logic and yet our media is woefully inept in general at reporting science.
 
KnightersRevenge said:
Honestly I don't get it. Dr Karl is beloved and a great media performer (in fact wouldn't it be great if Q&A did a special with just him? Let's celebrate our own scientists!) and a speaker of truth and logic and yet our media is woefully inept in general at reporting science.

There's nothing inept about it KR. Also, Paddy Manning, for example, was an excellent reporter, but his work was buried on page 4 of the business section, then he was sacked. Also, any scientific discoveries or developments that don't pose a political threat are reported beautifully.
 
So if it isn't ineptness in the media why is the populace so poorly informed? So incapable of understanding the science and so distrustful of the uncomfortable truth of their role in the pollution of the atmosphere?
 
KnightersRevenge said:
So if it isn't ineptness in the media why is the populace so poorly informed? So incapable of understanding the science and so distrustful of the uncomfortable truth of their role in the pollution of the atmosphere?

Does the ABC show much about it all? It would be good if they had debates but also from experts to explain it with facts, not just opinion pieces.
 
willo said:
Does the ABC show much about it all? It would be good if they had debates but also from experts to explain it with facts, not just opinion pieces.
Why is it just up to the ABC?
 
tigertim said:
Why is it just up to the ABC?

I didn't say it was, did I?

But since it's a topic that all sides of the political spectrum have different views on I thought they might have some interest. Given it's funded by the taxpayer it may have presented something to digest. As opposed to other fta stations and media that could be viewed as having political bias. Does that seem pertinent?
 
When one side of the argument has as many real experts and convincing views as Intelligent Design does, why waste the taxpayers money ?
 
Baloo said:
When one side of the argument has as many real experts and convincing views as Intelligent Design does, why waste the taxpayers money ?

Tongue in cheek?
They've got a budget haven't they? It's probably a more important topic than "meerkat manor" Baloo. ;D