Global Warming

[tigergollywog]

Thing's might get a little warmer if North Korea start pressing buttons.

I think its a nuclear winter dave. maybe it'll cancel out the warming and we'll have the perfect climate :don't know

 

[tigerdave]

I think its a nuclear winter dave. maybe it'll cancel out the warming and we'll have the perfect climate :don't know

Very warm Summer for them then tgw! ;D

 

[Azza]

Global warming predictions [based on anthropogenic influences] prove accurate

"... the success of these early forecasts suggests the basic understanding of human-induced climate change on which they were based is supported by subsequent observations."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/mar/27/climate-change-model-global-warming?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

 

[tigergollywog]

are you quoting scientists at us again Azza? :

next youlle be giving us some link about the world surgeons guild coming up with some *smile* and bull surgical procedure.

 

[tigertime2]

the budget will reduce spending on Solar power by $100mil - I thought this was do or die? maybe the Marxist/warmest clique have more pressing issues - like trying to win an election...ah the reality of political life.

 

[Liverpool]

the budget will reduce spending on Solar power by $100mil - I thought this was do or die? maybe the Marxist/warmest clique have more pressing issues - like trying to win an election...ah the reality of political life.

:fing32

 

[tigergollywog]

:fing32

I struggle to comprehend a thumbs up at democratic dysfunction and potential global environmental catastrophe. Hows business Livsy?

 

[Liverpool]

I struggle to comprehend a thumbs up at democratic dysfunction ALP hypocrisy and potential global environmental catastrophe. Hows business Livsy?

Just corrected the above for you

How's business you ask?

Ironically, I have just come out of a half year financial report meeting and the business has lost close to $15-million through the carbon tax alone and are seriously looking at relocating the manufacturing arm of the business.
I'm not in the manufacturing arm but I am sure, if we do re-locate this part of the business to China, that the manufacturing boys while lining up at Centrelink and wondering how they will pay their next mortgage repayment will feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing they have saved Australia from this global catastrophe

 

[bullus_hit]

Just corrected the above for you

How's business you ask?

Ironically, I have just come out of a half year financial report meeting and the business has lost close to $15-million through the carbon tax alone and are seriously looking at relocating the manufacturing arm of the business.
I'm not in the manufacturing arm but I am sure, if we do re-locate this part of the business to China, that the manufacturing boys while lining up at Centrelink and wondering how they will pay their next mortgage repayment will feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing they have saved Australia from this global catastrophe

A true patriot you are, I guess you'll also be shipping jobs off to China if paid parental leave is introduced?

By the way, have you considered cutting energy costs as opposed to sacking workers?

 

[poppa x]

A true patriot you are, I guess you'll also be shipping jobs off to China if paid parental leave is introduced?

By the way, have you considered cutting energy costs as opposed to sacking workers?

I could halve my energy costs but I'd have to produce half the goods with half the employees.
Worth thinking about though.
I'd be saving the planet to be better enjoyed by all the unemployed who'd be feeling a warm inner glow at their sacrifice.

 

[Liverpool]

A true patriot you are, I guess you'll also be shipping jobs off to China if paid parental leave is introduced?

By the way, have you considered cutting energy costs as opposed to sacking workers?

I assume you are talking about the Liberal Party's paid parental leave?
Let's see if that even gets off the ground considering the economic position this country will be in by the time a Liberal Government get back into power.

As for cutting energy costs....sure, we can do a number of things....one option the manufacturing arm looked at was the introduction of environmentally friendly and green efficient industrial lighting.
Unfortunately, at one site alone to change all the lighting over was going to be a major capex project and cost over $1-million.
It would cost tens of millions (even hundreds of millions) of dollars to rebuild or even change the processes we have to make it more 'green' and with commitments made to shareholders requiring a return, I doubt the company would go down this route or be even able to go down this route.

China does offer cheaper energy (both electricity, coal, and gas), cheaper labour, we have a high Australian dollar which isn't helping, now we have a $15-million carbon tax bill.
Thanks Julia :-* ...yet her union mates will be the first ones to get on TV spruiking about the poor workers losing their jobs

Oh well...at least they will have sunshine and fresh summer breezes here in Australia while all the bad chemicals and gases just hang around in China, right? :hihi

I could halve my energy costs but I'd have to produce half the goods with half the employees.
Worth thinking about though.
I'd be saving the planet to be better enjoyed by all the unemployed who'd be feeling a warm inner glow at their sacrifice.

Spot on Poppa.

 

[bullus_hit]

I could halve my energy costs but I'd have to produce half the goods with half the employees.
Worth thinking about though.
I'd be saving the planet to be better enjoyed by all the unemployed who'd be feeling a warm inner glow at their sacrifice.

So let's blame the carbon tax for all our woes, cop out of the highest order. Tony Abbott will repeal the carbon tax so why are people talking about relocating to China? I have a sneaking suspician that all this talk is just a great big ruse to avoid taking any responsibility for sacking Australian workers. At the end of the day, most businesses relocate off shore to cut costs, carbon tax or no carbon tax.

Electricity prices have also risen for a number of reasons, do some research and you might even find a way to cut yourself a better deal.

http://www.choice.com.au/media-and-news/consumer-news/news/electricity-prices-increase-across-australia.aspx

 

[tigersnake]

I could halve my energy costs but I'd have to produce half the goods with half the employees.
Worth thinking about though.
I'd be saving the planet to be better enjoyed by all the unemployed who'd be feeling a warm inner glow at their sacrifice.

Exposing an ideological bent here pop.

The carbon tax as it stands isn't asking you to halve your energy costs, by partially internalising the embedded costs of pollution, they are creating an incentive to reduce your energy consumption by 2.5%. Which in turn will contribute to reduced emmissions.

Second, this measure is the first tiny step to reducing the exponential increase in emmisions. Its not about a warm inner glow, its about saving the planet based on the best info we have. It will take decades, maybe more, but it appears you're not concerned with that, as long as we're clear. Also, all the economic modelling shows that a CT will promote innovation and new industries, and whichever way you slice it, increased employment.

(why bothe having this thread, people keep regurgitating the same old misinformed, mythical reactionary *smile*.)

 

[Brodders17]

Just corrected the above for you

How's business you ask?

Ironically, I have just come out of a half year financial report meeting and the business has lost close to $15-million through the carbon tax alone and are seriously looking at relocating the manufacturing arm of the business.
I'm not in the manufacturing arm but I am sure, if we do re-locate this part of the business to China, that the manufacturing boys while lining up at Centrelink and wondering how they will pay their next mortgage repayment will feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing they have saved Australia from this global catastrophe

i assume they will be relocating to a part of china that doesnt have a carbon tax/ETS?

 

[tigersnake]

Spot on Poppa.

Indeed. If you don't understand whats happening and what is required to start fixing it OR aren't concerned by climate change and the implications for future generations. Or to put it another way, don't know or don't care. Own it.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

I assume you are talking about the Liberal Party's paid parental leave?
Let's see if that even gets off the ground considering the economic position this country will be in by the time a Liberal Government get back into power.

As for cutting energy costs....sure, we can do a number of things....one option the manufacturing arm looked at was the introduction of environmentally friendly and green efficient industrial lighting.
Unfortunately, at one site alone to change all the lighting over was going to be a major capex project and cost over $1-million.
It would cost tens of millions (even hundreds of millions) of dollars to rebuild or even change the processes we have to make it more 'green' and with commitments made to shareholders requiring a return, I doubt the company would go down this route or be even able to go down this route.

China does offer cheaper energy (both electricity, coal, and gas), cheaper labour, we have a high Australian dollar which isn't helping, now we have a $15-million carbon tax bill.
Thanks Julia :-* ...yet her union mates will be the first ones to get on TV spruiking about the poor workers losing their jobs

Oh well...at least they will have sunshine and fresh summer breezes here in Australia while all the bad chemicals and gases just hang around in China, right? :hihi

Spot on Poppa.

Typical, short-termism Livers. If industry made incremental upgrades over decades then you wouldn't need to discuss massive high cost projects. Instead plant is run to it's limit until it is no longer viable and you throw your arms up and say it's all too expensive lets move to China! This is precisely why "the market self-corrects" is the greatest snow job of all time. Companies push the limits of their output while short changing on maintenance and upgrades knowing full well that eventually the cap-ex won't be able to cover it...move somewhere else...rinse and repeat. It isn't about productivity and it isn't about WPR it is about greed, unsustainable practices and the illusion of infinite growth.

China won't be able to compete on low labour cost forever, what then? Tanzania? Why is profit a dirty word, not GROWTH mind, just profit. If I am making a profit every year why is that not considered good enough, why must my profit grow every year? This a mathematically fallacy. Growth cannot be sustained unless their is a brake on it somewhere. Recently the brake is a massive market meltdown. What does the market do? Rrinse and repeat! We will never learn.

 

[tigergollywog]

I could halve my energy costs but I'd have to produce half the goods with half the employees.
Worth thinking about though.
I'd be saving the planet to be better enjoyed by all the unemployed who'd be feeling a warm inner glow at their sacrifice.

I gotta admit pops, if it came down to this Alan Jones-like dichotomy, I'd rather be out of work than out of a planet. farming in 40 deg C, with a bushfire in the top paddock and a Tsunami on the flats aint gonna be that productive anyway. But that just me.

 

[tigergollywog]

the business has lost close to $15-million through the carbon tax alone

That means its a dirty business.

 

[tigergollywog]

the business has lost close to $15-million through the carbon tax alone

Lost, or not-made? Sometimes people mix these up.

 

[Liverpool]

So let's blame the carbon tax for all our woes, cop out of the highest order. Tony Abbott will repeal the carbon tax so why are people talking about relocating to China? I have a sneaking suspician that all this talk is just a great big ruse to avoid taking any responsibility for sacking Australian workers. At the end of the day, most businesses relocate off shore to cut costs, carbon tax or no carbon tax.

I am not totally convinced Tony will be able to cut the carbon tax as this Government are setting a few financial 'booby traps' along the way.

And its no ruse...even a company our size, $15-million hurts. Its not a bottomless pit of money. There is always a breaking point.
And of course, moving to avoid this Australian Government's carbon tax is one reason...and as I mentioned, other reasons such as the high Australian dollar, higher overheads here, etc are also not helping.

Do you stay here, get destroyed by cheaper imports, and the whole company goes bust?
Or do you look at moving one arm of it ohore, and hopefully keep the rest of it afloat here in Australia?

I know you complain about sacking Australian workers like we're the big bad guys...but is it better to sack 100+ in manufacturing and keep going in Australia, or stay here with all the regulations, carbon tax, etc and end up with 2000+ at Centrelink instead and the whole company goes belly up?

Indeed. If you don't understand whats happening and what is required to start fixing it OR aren't concerned by climate change and the implications for future generations. Or to put it another way, don't know or don't care. Own it.

As I have said many times already...if you really think our pitiful carbon tax and the carbon we emit is going to change the world, then you are deluded.
I would be more supportive if the world's biggest polluters were also in on the game but they are not.
They are enjoying companies moving offshore or sub-contracting work to their companies....whether it be manufacturing, procrument, call-centres, banking...you name it.

Typical, short-termism Livers. If industry made incremental upgrades over decades then you wouldn't need to discuss massive high cost projects. Instead plant is run to it's limit until it is no longer viable and you throw your arms up and say it's all too expensive lets move to China! This is precisely why "the market self-corrects" is the greatest snow job of all time. Companies push the limits of their output while short changing on maintenance and upgrades knowing full well that eventually the cap-ex won't be able to cover it...move somewhere else...rinse and repeat. It isn't about productivity and it isn't about WPR it is about greed, unsustainable practices and the illusion of infinite growth.

China won't be able to compete on low labour cost forever, what then? Tanzania? Why is profit a dirty word, not GROWTH mind, just profit. If I am making a profit every year why is that not considered good enough, why must my profit grow every year? This a mathematically fallacy. Growth cannot be sustained unless their is a brake on it somewhere. Recently the brake is a massive market meltdown. What does the market do? Rrinse and repeat! We will never learn.

I don't know what line of work you are in or what company you work for, but you're certainly not experienced in big business with a naive comment like this.
Of course companies, especially bigger ones, will cut costs as much as they can and I would say with the majority of them, the budgets are tighter each year 9especially with the current economic climate)
Companies here now see investing their capital in new infrastructures in cheaper areas...whether that be in Asia, Africa, or even the USA...they will not waste a lot of money in 'old' areas like Australia, where they won't get the return.
Its a band-aid job here. Patch it up so we can keep going but let's invest our money where we will make profit, where we can grow in new markets.
You may not like it or agree with it, but thats the reality.

Now with a carbon tax here, companies are expected to invest money in new technologies or new processes, which usually require new buildings, machines, and infrastructures....just to make the same product they make now! Where is the return there? This money could be spent better elsewhere in a new plant in China or the USA and help set the company up for the next 50 years.

You talk about growth...but to grow you need profit...you need capital...you need investors...you need money.
You need to diversify, invest in new markets, invest in new infrastructure....so you get a return, get a profit, and grow again.

You ask why does profit have to grow each year....its no different to why we expect a payrise each year (or want a payrise each year)...we all want to do better and improve.
There is nothing wrong with that!

That means its a dirty business.

Its not a Willy Wonka's chocolate factory, I can assure you :cutelaugh