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End of an Era
- Thread starter RemoteTiger
- Start date
Reckon that was more to do with the style of the losses. We were comprehensively outplayed by a much better team on the night in 2017. We weren't that bad, they were just amazing that night.
Last night was totally different, you couldn't come in and shrug off the skill errors we showed last night. Saints weren't great, they were very good at the contest but I thought they were average outside of that, we were just terrible.
This is a good point. We are trying to play a game style that doesn’t suit our personnel. The genesis of our dynasty probably began around 2014-2015 when put a heavy emphasis on running ability over kicking skills. By 2017 Hardwick and co had put together a list that could force turnovers with pressure and punish opponents on the rebound. This went against what the rest of the comp was doing which was high possession, keepings off style and it proved brutally effective, particularly in finals.
Now largely due to rule changes the balance has shifted back towards possession heavy game plans that emphasize precision footskills. Outside of maybe Martin, Short and Riewoldt there isn’t another player on our list I’d consider even close to elite by foot. Nearly every advantage we have built through recruiting and development has disappeared. We now have a list that is designed to play football one way, but the competition is demanding it be played the opposite.
This can’t be fixed in a single week or even one off-season. We’ll need something closer to a rebuild more than a refresh to genuinely compete again.
We've been Walter Lindrum-ed. Whilst maybe not directly to Stop us specifically, tostop that style of game and the emerging copy cats.
The sad bit, not sure if anyone else feels this way, is that after being so *smile*, a laughing stock, for so long.....the good times feel like they've gone all too quickly.
My 4 year old is just starting to say how much she loves the Tigers. I was hoping we'd share some of this good time, but it's over already.
At least the club appears professional enough to be aware the next build is required due to our draft hand. I hope we never see the likes of the 80-90s again.
This year we have had the fumbles since round 1. It's not just me, this is the worst core skills I have seen from the team in the past 5 seasons.
I also hope we go hard at this and next year’s draft to build the next premiership team in around 3-5 years’ time, instead of trading our picks to keep the window open a bit longer. It will bring more premierships to the club overall IMO and we wouldn’t have to bottom out.
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Think we have to take into account the squad is tired, having had to effectively play an extra 16-20 weeks of footbal than others in the past 5 years. Coupled with the short break from Late Octoiber - Feb and injuries, this has exacerabted the issue. Reckon the Cats will also hit the wall
I agree with your summation regarding the effect the rule changes haver had on the side, and the types of players and play that said changes favour, however I'm not sure that that all is as bad as some on here are making out.
Last night was shocking, and there are a variety of things that weren't working for sure.
However the team that now apparently faces a setting sun should have beaten port and West Coast, and has been smashed by injuries to arguably its most important players throughout the season, (on top of Hocking's nonsense).
If we were those two games up would people be banging on about 'I'll remember when we were good, so thankful for the last four years'.
And would teams like Melbourne be travelling the same without Gawn, Petracca and or Oliver out for most of the season?
And I'm not sure we now need to try and rebuild in the mould of the current front runners, who don't actually appear to be that great; they're just better suited to the latest Frankenstein version of then game.
The Tiges have still looked devastating in patches despite the rule changes and injuries. I firmly believe an injection of some new players, more time to make an adjusted plan gel and our best team healthy and continuously playing together will do the trick.
2021 is not our year, for many reasons. Sh*t happens.
Last night was as bad a loss as anyone in the AFL has had this season. To be able to only manage two goals was just woeful. I felt sorry for Samson Ryan I have never seen a player look less likely to get a touch in a game of AFL before. There is a duty of care not to expose him again this season.
The great Cotch looked like an angry old man last night. Maybe a change of role might help. Houli has had an alarming drop off in form. He has been an amazing servant and role model but the end could be near. The other midfielders were badly beaten as well. Shai would probably be leading the best and fairest but he was non existent last night.
This season is obviously gone but there are some big list management decisions coming up. The midfield needs an injection of speed and class. The depth has slowly been eroded and the back ups are players who haven't had any AFL experience before. Do we try and have one last crack why we still have Dusty? If we do we need to trade in a ready made mid or two. Cotch can't do it anymore and the meatball can't get on the park long enough to gain some fitness to run games out.
The great Cotch looked like an angry old man last night. Maybe a change of role might help. Houli has had an alarming drop off in form. He has been an amazing servant and role model but the end could be near. The other midfielders were badly beaten as well. Shai would probably be leading the best and fairest but he was non existent last night.
This season is obviously gone but there are some big list management decisions coming up. The midfield needs an injection of speed and class. The depth has slowly been eroded and the back ups are players who haven't had any AFL experience before. Do we try and have one last crack why we still have Dusty? If we do we need to trade in a ready made mid or two. Cotch can't do it anymore and the meatball can't get on the park long enough to gain some fitness to run games out.
Good post. Injuries more than anything might force our hand. It’s an interesting position ..Hit the draft hard and ensure we have a pile of kids in the bank and see what happens... Or try get one or two experienced players in to keep us in contention for another year or two. Cats have done that and been there abouts every year…but in saying that - they haven’t won a flag for a decade.
You are all barking up the wrong tree...we have the cattle.
This is 100% a mental problem.
Maybe it is the mental adjustment to a new game plan......or Hardwick has lost the players.
Remember the famous Mrs Harwick talk...Hardwick has form. He needs to go back to basic fun footy. Who *smile* cares if we don't win this year. Keep it Simple Stupid.
This is 100% a mental problem.
Maybe it is the mental adjustment to a new game plan......or Hardwick has lost the players.
Remember the famous Mrs Harwick talk...Hardwick has form. He needs to go back to basic fun footy. Who *smile* cares if we don't win this year. Keep it Simple Stupid.
it is how bad we were last night that means i wont write us off. it wasnt like we played ok and were still off the pace. we played as bad as we possibly could, especially in the 2nd half, we made so many easy mistakes at both ends of the ground, yet we were only beaten by 6 goals. (The saints were very ordinary). we wouldnt have beaten North last night.
yet 2 weeks ago we were 4 goals in front of the WEagles with 10 mins to play. the week before we thrashed the premiership favourites.
the injuries will make it hard- especially to our defence, but if we bounce back over the next 2 weeks, against the Suns and Pies, we are still in the hunt.
If Noah has an acl we won’t have a full list, next year and Soldo is yet to return and we don’t know how he will return physically.
Dave might have to go around another year longer if his Achilles heals up now Noah is possibly out of commission.
Dave might have to go around another year longer if his Achilles heals up now Noah is possibly out of commission.
It's not the end of an Era yet. Maybe a time to take a step back so we can find the right path again.
Reading this and the Dimma thread, there's a lot of reasons we could be in a slump this year. Old Leaders can't do what they did, lockdown weary, loss of coaches, loss of support staff, hunger diminished after 3 Flags, rule changes crippled our natural game. About the only reason I haven't heard yet is Dimma's separation from Mrs Hardwick, but that could also be playing on Dimma's mental state.
I reckon it's most, if not all of the above to varying degrees.Death Wounded by a thousand cuts. One or two in isolation we can cover. But all of them having a negative effect and it's too much to deal with right now.
We've still got Peggy, Benny and Balme there. Burge is there. Blair & Matty Clarke. Dimma is a well experienced 3 time premiership coach who has coached a team from worse than Fitzroy to a Dynasty in a relatively short space of time. We still have the best player ever to play AFL and his heir apparent should re-sign this year. The most dynamic younng defender since Rance and one of the league's premier tall forwards is still in his Prime. Throw in the Prestias and Lamberts and the rest of the support crew. A three time premiership ruckman who's still a force and then we have a heap of exciting young players who should, with time, step up as leaders.
We're still in it, we're still got the club and team to dominate. We may have done our dash for the year but in saying that we've shown in matches this year that we've still got it, it just seems harder to turn it on. Assuming we make the finals this year we'd still be one of the teams all the others would like to avoid. Can our veterans lift for one last final season if they felt it was their last? I reckon they can. But if it doesn't happen, who cares really. If at the end of 2016 we were offered 3 premierships by 2020, we would have all sold our souls, and the souls of our families, to the devil to get it.
But there's still plenty of life in this Tiger if you ask me.
Reading this and the Dimma thread, there's a lot of reasons we could be in a slump this year. Old Leaders can't do what they did, lockdown weary, loss of coaches, loss of support staff, hunger diminished after 3 Flags, rule changes crippled our natural game. About the only reason I haven't heard yet is Dimma's separation from Mrs Hardwick, but that could also be playing on Dimma's mental state.
I reckon it's most, if not all of the above to varying degrees.
We've still got Peggy, Benny and Balme there. Burge is there. Blair & Matty Clarke. Dimma is a well experienced 3 time premiership coach who has coached a team from worse than Fitzroy to a Dynasty in a relatively short space of time. We still have the best player ever to play AFL and his heir apparent should re-sign this year. The most dynamic younng defender since Rance and one of the league's premier tall forwards is still in his Prime. Throw in the Prestias and Lamberts and the rest of the support crew. A three time premiership ruckman who's still a force and then we have a heap of exciting young players who should, with time, step up as leaders.
We're still in it, we're still got the club and team to dominate. We may have done our dash for the year but in saying that we've shown in matches this year that we've still got it, it just seems harder to turn it on. Assuming we make the finals this year we'd still be one of the teams all the others would like to avoid. Can our veterans lift for one last final season if they felt it was their last? I reckon they can. But if it doesn't happen, who cares really. If at the end of 2016 we were offered 3 premierships by 2020, we would have all sold our souls, and the souls of our families, to the devil to get it.
But there's still plenty of life in this Tiger if you ask me.
I too have had an inkling Dave may retire my Dear Zips, but if Noah went down, the club wouldve had to most likely look at bringing in a Key Defender from another club which would alter any other trade plans.
To avoid this they might've tried to get Dave to go round again.
He still may do so but we will find out.
The most important news is Noah has avoided an ACL.
On our list, why is it that every other club seems to have some elder statesmen that appear to be playing their best footy, but most of ours appear to just completely fall off a cliff when they reach the age around 29-30?
Looking at a few examples, Hawkins (33) and Selwood (33) seem to be playing back to their best footy and showing little signs of slowing down (add to that guys like Smith, Higgins, Duncan all 30+ and still their best players).
Then we have others like Mundy (almost 36), Boak (almost 33), Pendlebury (33), Sidebottom (30) still the best players in their respective clubs week after week.
I could go on and on.
Which is why it's staggering we sign guys in their late 20s huge long term contracts. e.g. We signed Presita for 4 more years as a 29 yo. Do we honestly think he will be producing numbers similar to his current output as a 33 yo?
Looking at a few examples, Hawkins (33) and Selwood (33) seem to be playing back to their best footy and showing little signs of slowing down (add to that guys like Smith, Higgins, Duncan all 30+ and still their best players).
Then we have others like Mundy (almost 36), Boak (almost 33), Pendlebury (33), Sidebottom (30) still the best players in their respective clubs week after week.
I could go on and on.
Which is why it's staggering we sign guys in their late 20s huge long term contracts. e.g. We signed Presita for 4 more years as a 29 yo. Do we honestly think he will be producing numbers similar to his current output as a 33 yo?
