Certainly doesn’t help not having Fly and Leppa at the club , and that fitness coach @caesar will know his name
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
End of an Era
- Thread starter RemoteTiger
- Start date
I guess I have been like a lot of supporters; expecting, hoping, trusting that post bye it will all magically come together and I think for most, last night shattered that! It wasn't just the loss, it was the manner of the loss, the injuries but above all for me it is the form of most of our players.
Perhaps, they, like us; think that they can just flick a switch. I fear that its not going to happen in 2021. I really hope I am wrong but I just can't see it. Yes we will probably get over the Suns and Pies but can we make a real run?
I can only think of 3 players who are somewhere approaching career best form; Bolton (poor last night), Broad (out for medium term), McIntosh.
I can think of quite a few who's form has dropped off a cliff ...
Balta - (sorry that he got a bad injury but has been trailing his opponent (Kennedy WCE best last game), running under marks, short kicking and fumbling for the last month). Two of Saints 1st three goals were his mistakes! He is a shadow of that sure handed, confident key defender from 2020. There has always been question marks about his application, work ethic etc. I suspect that he has been basking in 2020 glory for a while now!
Martin, Cotchin, Short, Edwards, Baker, Vlaustin, Riewoldt - all well below best and their disposal has been downright awful.
All season I have been critical of our forward entries. Even with clean breaks from the centre we rarely hit a leading target (unless Oppo). We get outmarked way too often or kick to a crowded top of square!
We have been consistently killed on our exit kick from defense to the wing, where we are usually out-marked or out numbered. We refuse to go up the middle or take any sort of chances!
Our disposal by foot and Hand is well below par. Never seen us handball at feet, behind people etc. so often.
And don't forget the selectors! Easily the worst selection blunder since Relton Roberts. Just remember we picked a debutant ruckman on a wet Friday night and then, wait for it, didn't play him in the ruck! He gets zero possessions and quite frankly could have run around for anoter 4 quarters and wouldn't have got one. Don't under estimate the gravity of this mistake. We pretty much had three forward | rucks (in that order) on a wet Friday night!
Richmond, circa 2017, would have played this game with one ruck and one key forward. All that extra run would have been handy - to say the least!
I think the club has a real dilemna now about what to do with 2021. We can battle on gamely, probably finish 6-8, maybe win a final or do we play the youngsters so that we can make some big decisions at seasons end. We have 6 picks in 1st three rounds; so we must delist/retire some if we are use them all. Houli is the only obvious retirement. DES is the most obvious delistment. We have to find out whether Dow, Martyn, Ross, Cumberland, Garthwaite and a couple of others are going to there in 2022. And surely we can't continue to carry all those ruckman with Soldo returning in 2022.
Perhaps, they, like us; think that they can just flick a switch. I fear that its not going to happen in 2021. I really hope I am wrong but I just can't see it. Yes we will probably get over the Suns and Pies but can we make a real run?
I can only think of 3 players who are somewhere approaching career best form; Bolton (poor last night), Broad (out for medium term), McIntosh.
I can think of quite a few who's form has dropped off a cliff ...
Balta - (sorry that he got a bad injury but has been trailing his opponent (Kennedy WCE best last game), running under marks, short kicking and fumbling for the last month). Two of Saints 1st three goals were his mistakes! He is a shadow of that sure handed, confident key defender from 2020. There has always been question marks about his application, work ethic etc. I suspect that he has been basking in 2020 glory for a while now!
Martin, Cotchin, Short, Edwards, Baker, Vlaustin, Riewoldt - all well below best and their disposal has been downright awful.
All season I have been critical of our forward entries. Even with clean breaks from the centre we rarely hit a leading target (unless Oppo). We get outmarked way too often or kick to a crowded top of square!
We have been consistently killed on our exit kick from defense to the wing, where we are usually out-marked or out numbered. We refuse to go up the middle or take any sort of chances!
Our disposal by foot and Hand is well below par. Never seen us handball at feet, behind people etc. so often.
And don't forget the selectors! Easily the worst selection blunder since Relton Roberts. Just remember we picked a debutant ruckman on a wet Friday night and then, wait for it, didn't play him in the ruck! He gets zero possessions and quite frankly could have run around for anoter 4 quarters and wouldn't have got one. Don't under estimate the gravity of this mistake. We pretty much had three forward | rucks (in that order) on a wet Friday night!
Richmond, circa 2017, would have played this game with one ruck and one key forward. All that extra run would have been handy - to say the least!
I think the club has a real dilemna now about what to do with 2021. We can battle on gamely, probably finish 6-8, maybe win a final or do we play the youngsters so that we can make some big decisions at seasons end. We have 6 picks in 1st three rounds; so we must delist/retire some if we are use them all. Houli is the only obvious retirement. DES is the most obvious delistment. We have to find out whether Dow, Martyn, Ross, Cumberland, Garthwaite and a couple of others are going to there in 2022. And surely we can't continue to carry all those ruckman with Soldo returning in 2022.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the Last nights was definately number 1, but number 2 and 3 were the Hawthorn and St K losses last season, when we won the flag. The Hawthorn one in particular was woeful, terrible, abysmal, didn't fire a shot, wandered around like we'd all had a few valiums.
Analysis is all very well, and yours is OK, but you have to come from a solid premise.
All this hang-dog sooking over one bad loss is hard to take. Bad losses happen, even to good sides, even to top sides. We've had an amazing run, 3 flags and could/ should have been 4 considering our most dominant year was '18, I think that amazing run has skewed a few people's perspectives. My own view is we'll fire a few more shots this season but won't win it, you can't win the flag every year. Then signs, (ageing players, young players, draft posi, Dusty plenty left), point to a mini-rebuild and go again.
Agree with these sentiments. Just think Bolton needs to be the priority to keep, even if we have to pay overs! At least one of CCJ, Chol, Ryan, Soldo has to go. There are teams that will pay overs for rucks I believe.
I think night's loss is very different to those we have had in our flag years. Our stars are older and past their best and in some cases are close to a liability. Our mid level players can't get near it. On what we have seen our youngsters are not as good as other clubs. We are trying to play an unfamiliar game plan that is not working. We cannot finish top 4. We are losing players to injury rather than having players return - next few weeks there will be no Astbury, Lynch, Vlas, Broad and Balta. It is going to be a battle just to make the 8.
The positive is that we have maintained a very strong draft hand. The list management team have some hard decisions to make but the players selected in this year's draft will be crucial to a rapid rebound.
Agree with much of this JB. Last night and many other games have (to me) shown what a huge loss not having Soldo has been. He at least made us competitive at clearances with his size and bulk and gave our inside mids a sniff. Prestia when fit is an example of his form being no where close to his JD year when Soldo was our no 1 ruck. The year has also shown how steep the slide can be for aging stars. Agree some hard decisions to be made and the big positive the Cubs should get enough exposure to know who to keep. Hopefully we will not go down the Hawthorn bandaid approach and use our now looking much better draft picks. Again the next games will show where the serious deficiencies lie To be plugged at the draft. One thing last night showed was reverting to the 2016 game plan did not work then and still does not our skill levels aren’t that good.
bookmarked that Coburg would like a rebuild in June 2021.
six months after winning our third flag and with finals still on the cards.
That movie where the soccer team crashed in the Andes and had to eat each other to survive?
Carts we aren’t playing like a team who can win it. You don’t play games like last night and win premierships. Do we need a rebuild? No. But a refresh Yes.
This off season will be huge for us. If we can get our hands on a A Grade ready made mid I would do it. However I can’t see many coming to us knowing we might be on the decline.
Then next option is hit the draft hard. Bring in the next crop of stars. Get them in now whilst our stars are still there. Build the next premiership team. The key is to relaunch our next assault quickly. It can be done.
3 picks in the top 15 or 20 a la Port a couple of years ago, where they got Rozee, Butters and Duursma. We have the ammo to do it imo.
This reminds me of Carters rebuild thread after we were annihilated funnily enough by the Saints in 2017.
After the last 4 years I will never right these boys off. They were massively off last night, skills were off all night. I'm not sure the hunger was off, we still tackled hard. It was a disastrous night at the office but its how we respond next week that will tell us where we are at. If we beat Gold Coast by 15 goals next week, then everyone will be like "last week was an aberation, we can beat anyone in finals". Its the thing with sport, fans can be incredibly fickle.
We have the chance to rebuild on the run with a great draft hand this year. Nail the draft this year if we can get 3 picks at least in the 1st round and we can reset very quickly. As others have said, look what those high picks did for Port.
We have a great bunch of kids with several having played a lot of football. We will get to see a few more, we might finally be able to find out if Its Miller Time. I'm actually wondering if someone like Caddy to play a similar role to Vlastuin / Broad. Good height, good in the air, penetrating kick. Might that be something we see, it could be his last hope to reset himself as an intercepting defender.
I was really disappointed last night, I wasn't even angry which was strange but I think we have plenty of reasons to keep our faith in these guys.
As we've said we might need a reset and I think a part of that might be finding a new role for the captain. I'm not sure he's giving us enough in the middle any longer.
After the last 4 years I will never right these boys off. They were massively off last night, skills were off all night. I'm not sure the hunger was off, we still tackled hard. It was a disastrous night at the office but its how we respond next week that will tell us where we are at. If we beat Gold Coast by 15 goals next week, then everyone will be like "last week was an aberation, we can beat anyone in finals". Its the thing with sport, fans can be incredibly fickle.
We have the chance to rebuild on the run with a great draft hand this year. Nail the draft this year if we can get 3 picks at least in the 1st round and we can reset very quickly. As others have said, look what those high picks did for Port.
We have a great bunch of kids with several having played a lot of football. We will get to see a few more, we might finally be able to find out if Its Miller Time. I'm actually wondering if someone like Caddy to play a similar role to Vlastuin / Broad. Good height, good in the air, penetrating kick. Might that be something we see, it could be his last hope to reset himself as an intercepting defender.
I was really disappointed last night, I wasn't even angry which was strange but I think we have plenty of reasons to keep our faith in these guys.
As we've said we might need a reset and I think a part of that might be finding a new role for the captain. I'm not sure he's giving us enough in the middle any longer.
Hardwick more or less shrugged that one off at the presser. Last night he was clearly pensive even if he wasn't giving anything away. He's a worried man.
In none of the previous bad losses did we have a complete change in our game plan. We just didn't bring the required intensity for those games. We are playing pre-2017 uncontested footy again now, it didn't work then and it won't work now - especially with the ageing list and the types of players that we have.
