Dimma's performance objectively viewed

[67 special]

Without wanting to introduce another thread just bagging Dimma .....I would like to focus on an objective assessment of his performance. And given we are stuck with him...what does he need to do to improve ?

I had thought he was ok until earlier this season.......I thought he was great in his first few seasons, albeit we were coming off a very low base.....but in more recent seasons I see his problems as being ....

a reluctance to make changes on game day...so, he seems to be out coached quite frequently (a classic being his refusal to deal with Cotchin's hard tag; not applying hard tag to Judd in the Carlton eliminate final...etc)

continued playing of blokes in positions that don't suit them (eg Vlastuin should have been in the guts more often)

Inability to get the team up for finals games.....

What are others thoughts?

 

[YinnarTiger]

Without wanting to introduce another thread just bagging Dimma .....

What are others thoughts?

I can't pick the main difference between this thread and the other dimma thread.

 

[67 special]

I can't pick the main difference between this thread and the other dimma thread.

Maybe so....but are his shortcomings more about game day, development, man management, ?

All of the above?

I can't think of a game where anyone could say he out-coached anyone ...there might be some examples but I can't think of them......I guess I am, like everyone else, mystified as to how the Board concluded that his performance warranted a 2 year extension....

 

[Baron Samedi]

I can't pick the main difference between this thread and the other dimma thread.

Great contribution.

 

[YinnarTiger]

Great contribution.

Thanks.

 

[ratedx]

Maybe so....but are his shortcomings more about game day, development, man management, ?

All of the above?

I can't think of a game where anyone could say he out-coached anyone ...there might be some examples but I can't think of them......I guess I am, like everyone else, mystified as to how the Board concluded that his performance warranted a 2 year extension....

I've never really bought into the idea of "out coaching" someone or being "out coached" at the end of the day, its the players out there playing.. This isn't a chess game between two coaches.

 

[hutstar]

Without wanting to introduce another thread just bagging Dimma .....I would like to focus on an objective assessment of his performance. And given we are stuck with him...what does he need to do to improve ?

I had thought he was ok until earlier this season.......I thought he was great in his first few seasons, albeit we were coming off a very low base.....but in more recent seasons I see his problems as being ....

a reluctance to make changes on game day...so, he seems to be out coached quite frequently (a classic being his refusal to deal with Cotchin's hard tag; not applying hard tag to Judd in the Carlton eliminate final...etc)

continued playing of blokes in positions that don't suit them (eg Vlastuin should have been in the guts more often)

Inability to get the team up for finals games.....

What are others thoughts?

The players not being up for game day is cultural. We have the wrong captain (ie, we don't have anyone good, maybe Jack aside, and he will never get picked because he is no good at groupthought) and rubbish player leadership. The strategic bit though, he is pisweak. Development likewise. He is a good bloke (which helped greatly to get us out of the doldrums), but we need a ruthless leader now. I think I'm tired of conservative, I'm tired of aiming for average and stable. It's time to aim for the top, and damn the torpedoes.

 

[ratedx]

The players not being up for game day is cultural. We have the wrong captain (ie, we don't have anyone good, maybe Jack aside, and he will never get picked because he is no good at groupthought) and rubbish player leadership. The strategic bit though, he is pisweak. Development likewise. He is a good bloke (which helped greatly to get us out of the doldrums), but we need a ruthless leader now. I think I'm tired of conservative, I'm tired of aiming for average and stable. It's time to aim for the top, and damn the torpedoes.

I am curious about exactly what people expect from cotch? You all want him to be rutheless etc etcbut how exactly?

nad when he is he gets criticised

He gives Elton a clip and people criticise him for it
He yelled at CEllis earlier this year and on another board people said "shows disconnect between players"

He can't win the poor bloke.

 

[RoarEmotion]

He's going to have to improve his EQ - without being anywhere near any of the actual conversations - it would seem some players get to keep their spots with consecutive poor performances (Morris, Vickery) and other's don't - and on the flip consecutive good VFL performances can also be ignored (Miles, McBean when he was in form). To a smaller extent this was done on the edge of the final series rushing back some underdone players.

This reinforces for those not performing, not performing, and doesn't reward (which can lead to reduced effort depending on the mental strength of the player) good performances. Can also disenfranchise those players who perceive they are being treated unfairly (Lennon) and those who the rest of the team will be bitching about because they are getting an armchair ride (Vickery) and they will want to leave.

I haven't followed it that closely but it seems Beveridge works the opposite way (Stringer). This can cause some short term pain, but in the long term, everyone knows they need to bring it every week or they are out.

The other message coming out is that we just need to follow the process / keep things inside the four walls etc. etc. Processes are good but any learning organization (or person) needs to take feedback from the external environment and respond to it. When we continually lose the same way to NM/Melb (on the slingshot) / give up leads instead of putting the foot down for the kill which is also evidenced in our mediocre percentages for the number of games we won the last 3 years / you can see players hesitant and chipping backwards etc. you also need to admit when the process is delivering the wrong product and not lock down even harder on following it.

It would probably be quicker to bring in someone who has these skills than try to have Damien develop them.

See Grant Thomas' article.

https://gthomo.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/coach-model-flawed/

 

[gutfull]

Getting boring guys Hardwick this Hardwick that ...
its the hindsight in droves !!!
Im over it think you need to as well..

 

[Harry]

Game plan, game style, whatever you want to call it. You play the way you train and the way you train is driven by the game plan and style dictated by the head coach based on his philosophy on the game. Hardwicks number one flaw is his philosophy on the game and in turn the game plan he instills on his players. He does not understand the key components of the modern game and is completely out of tune with the evolving nature of the game. Tactics and making moves during a game are important but they add little value when the overarching game style is wrong. He has had 7 pre seasons to implement his game plan and he has perfected it. He and the club believe that it's only a matter of execution and effort that's letting us down (we need to get better, we need work harder etc). They don't realise the problem let alone knowing the solution.

 

[jb03]

Game plan, game style, whatever you want to call it. You play the way you train and the way you train is driven by the game plan and style dictated by the head coach based on his philosophy on the game. Hardwicks number one flaw is his philosophy on the game and in turn the game plan he instills on his players. He does not understand the key components of the modern game and is completely out of tune with the evolving nature of the game. Tactics and making moves during a game are important but they add little value when the overarching game style is wrong. He has had 7 pre seasons to implement his game plan and he has perfected it. He and the club believe that it's only a matter of execution and effort that's letting us down (we need to get better, we need work harder etc). They don't realise the problem let alone knowing the solution.

good post H. Nails why changing the assistants is really pointless.

 

[saigon tiger]

I am curious about exactly what people expect from cotch? You all want him to be rutheless etc etcbut how exactly?

nad when he is he gets criticised

He gives Elton a clip and people criticise him for it
He yelled at CEllis earlier this year and on another board people said "shows disconnect between players"

He can't win the poor bloke.

We expect him to have an influence when we play finals not like his 9 possession game last year. Pats too many of his fellow team mates on the butt for my liking!

 

[davidc0055]

I think the playing style that Dimma used this year was based on the quality of our core group of players. Combinations of Cotchin, Martin, Miles, Grigg, Maric and Hampson were the players most likely to contest the centre bounce and stoppages around the ground. None of them have speed. We needed to slow the play down at almost every opportunity because we simply didn't have the leg speed to go with most teams through the middle.

A slower playing style works well when those same players are elite at moving the ball. But they aren't. And the replacements for them when injured (Townsend and Moore) were even slower, with worse disposal. Experienced players who could play on the ball aren't up to it either -- Vlastuin is slow, Edwards is scared. Lambert was terrible, and Marcon just added to the treacle-paced midfield.

The kids we've recruited in the last two seasons can't compete with experienced onballers, and they're years away from doing so.

When we lost Delidio, McIntosh and Houli, and with no Yarran, we had no outside speed as well. So we play slower again. The only excitement was when Martin got a break and ran towards goal, or when Rioli had a metre headstart. But with Martin only ever sprinting one way, with Miles not physically able to get past a jog, with Hampson having to ruck almost all game, with Cotchin getting so much physical attention, we looked terrible.

 

[Djevv]

I think the playing style that Dimma used this year was based on the quality of our core group of players. Combinations of Cotchin, Martin, Miles, Grigg, Maric and Hampson were the players most likely to contest the centre bounce and stoppages around the ground. None of them have speed. We needed to slow the play down at almost every opportunity because we simply didn't have the leg speed to go with most teams through the middle.

A slower playing style works well when those same players are elite at moving the ball. But they aren't. And the replacements for them when injured (Townsend and Moore) were even slower, with worse disposal. Experienced players who could play on the ball aren't up to it either -- Vlastuin is slow, Edwards is scared. Lambert was terrible, and Marcon just added to the treacle-paced midfield.

The kids we've recruited in the last two seasons can't compete with experienced onballers, and they're years away from doing so.

When we lost Delidio, McIntosh and Houli, and with no Yarran, we had no outside speed as well. So we play slower again. The only excitement was when Martin got a break and ran towards goal, or when Rioli had a metre headstart. But with Martin only ever sprinting one way, with Miles not physically able to get past a jog, with Hampson having to ruck almost all game, with Cotchin getting so much physical attention, we looked terrible.

Pretty good analysis, David! We a dead slow and are constantly being caught in tackles by quicker sides. We are also always caught on the slingshot, again due to our lack of pace. Strangely we always seem to recruit slow but skilled players too. Ellis, Vaslutin, C.Ellis and Lennon are all slow as snails.

 

[TigerMasochist]

I think the playing style that Dimma used this year was based on the quality of our core group of players. Combinations of Cotchin, Martin, Miles, Grigg, Maric and Hampson were the players most likely to contest the centre bounce and stoppages around the ground. None of them have speed. We needed to slow the play down at almost every opportunity because we simply didn't have the leg speed to go with most teams through the middle.

A slower playing style works well when those same players are elite at moving the ball. But they aren't. And the replacements for them when injured (Townsend and Moore) were even slower, with worse disposal. Experienced players who could play on the ball aren't up to it either -- Vlastuin is slow, Edwards is scared. Lambert was terrible, and Marcon just added to the treacle-paced midfield.

The kids we've recruited in the last two seasons can't compete with experienced onballers, and they're years away from doing so.

When we lost Delidio, McIntosh and Houli, and with no Yarran, we had no outside speed as well. So we play slower again. The only excitement was when Martin got a break and ran towards goal, or when Rioli had a metre headstart. But with Martin only ever sprinting one way, with Miles not physically able to get past a jog, with Hampson having to ruck almost all game, with Cotchin getting so much physical attention, we looked terrible.

Nah! Haven't you learnt yet? Now repeat after me, Dimma's a dud. It's Dimma's fault. Keep it up for a couple of days, on the hour every hour n you'll feel better soon.

 

[keepa lids onit]

View on dimma is he's a shiyt coach and should be sacked ASAP!!!!

 

[saigon tiger]

View on dimma is he's a shiyt coach and should be sacked ASAP!!!!

Nail on the head stuff lidsy. Worst coach in the comp easily!

 

[Bill James]

The objective of coaching is to make finals and win them.


154 games coached without winning a final. No other coach in VFL/AFL history has achieved this.

154 games coached and made only 3 finals. In the AFL era no one has coached more games and made less than 7 finals.

154 games coached without making a PF. In the AFL era no other coach has achieved this (even Bomber Thompson made one if you were wondering).

154 games coached without making a GF. Of the 37 coaches in VFL/AFL history with more games than Hardwick, only four failed to make a GF.

154 games coached with a winning record of 48.70%. In the AFL era only the illustrious Robert Walls has a worse record from more games. Every multiple premiership coach has a winning record better than 54% except Pagan and his was better than 54% before he went to Carlton.


Objective enough?

Hardwick has been given more opportunity to demonstrate success than any coach in the history of the game but no cigar.

 

[houdini]

The objective of coaching is to make finals and win them.


154 games coached without winning a final. No other coach in VFL/AFL history has achieved this.

154 games coached and made only 3 finals. In the AFL era no one has coached more games and made less than 7 finals.

154 games coached without making a PF. In the AFL era no other coach has achieved this (even Bomber Thompson made one if you were wondering).

154 games coached without making a GF. Of the 37 coaches in VFL/AFL history with more games than Hardwick, only four failed to make a GF.

154 games coached with a winning record of 48.70%. In the AFL era only the illustrious Robert Walls has a worse record from more games. No multiple premiership coach has a winning record below 50%.


Objective enough?

and dimma will only add to that tally next year when we fail to play finals , as the aints and collingwood and even doofus and the scum will go past a dimma led tigers