Development

[Baloo]

I went along to the Coburg seconds game to have a look at the Richmond boys play.

Whilst there we happened to sit with two sets of parents who were there supporting their respective sons who play for our 2nds.

Both boys had come to us from the Calder Cannons and both couples spoke glowingly of the program that Richmond, Damien Hardwick, our coaches and our development team and put together for their boys plus the interest that Hardwick and co were showing in that development.

The individual parent did not support Richmond, they were Essendon and Carlton supporters but both said that after listening to Hardwick that they felt like pulling on the boots and training there guts outs for us themselves.

Anyway the parents said there boys were involved in individual and group skills sessions, weight training, tactics and planning sessions, as well as mental preparation, plus team training.

They also were glowing with the praise for the respect and discipline there sons were being taught

What better comments could we wish to hear about our new coaching and development team.

Great to hear. Now compare that to the comment Putt once made that he'd never spoken to Wallace. No wonder we're crap.

 

[St. Jude]

I went along to the Coburg seconds game to have a look at the Richmond boys play.

Whilst there we happened to sit with two sets of parents who were there supporting their respective sons who play for our 2nds.

Both boys had come to us from the Calder Cannons and both couples spoke glowingly of the program that Richmond, Damien Hardwick, our coaches and our development team and put together for their boys plus the interest that Hardwick and co were showing in that development.

The individual parent did not support Richmond, they were Essendon and Carlton supporters but both said that after listening to Hardwick that they felt like pulling on the boots and training there guts outs for us themselves.

Anyway the parents said there boys were involved in individual and group skills sessions, weight training, tactics and planning sessions, as well as mental preparation, plus team training.

They also were glowing with the praise for the respect and discipline there sons were being taught

What better comments could we wish to hear about our new coaching and development team.

What a breath of fresh air. This sort of talk really excites me. . Ive seen elsewhere that DH was one of the prime developers at the Dawks so this can only auger well for us. Thanks for sharing Mappa.

 

[Phar Ace]

What a breath of fresh air. This sort of talk really excites me. . Ive seen elsewhere that DH was one of the prime developers at the Dawks so this can only auger well for us. Thanks for sharing Mappa.

Yep thanks also for that post Mappa. What the parents spoke of was the foundations of development, on which talent can be built. No foundations, no structure. And that would appear to be how we've failed in the past, we've just simply tried to create a structure from odds and ends. For mine we might have failed in the 2005 draft, but we have always been failing to develop young talent.

Raines? Yes, he ran in straight lines and kicked pretty well. Your point is? Are you suggesting the Lions taught him how to turn corners and hit targets?

Hehe, begrudging praise. Straight lines indeed - take another look. You know he was better than that, in that game at least. I'm saying he has the confidence to turn corners (because he has support, enough encouragement and they talk) and his hitting targets has been rediscovered at the Lions, after it was lost at the Tigers.

 

[wayne]

They sh!t themselves under pressure and panic, more often than not the pressure and panic is caused from a bad decision made the play before!.

Dea was a classic example of panic with his first turnover, he had two Tigers behind him in the goal square, but handballed back into a dangerous area. Teams like St. Kilda and Geelong just know that they'll have a guy behind them and feed it back out to him without even thinking twice.

Also, If we had a few more guys give long leads onto the wings like Riewoldt did on the weekend, where they just have to kick it in his general direction and he is miles in the clear, these guys wouldn't look as bad.

We kick short to 50/50 contests coming out of defence 95% of the time. Even Goddard would struggle to kick effectively having to pinpoint passes all the time.

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

I went along to the Coburg seconds game to have a look at the Richmond boys play.

Whilst there we happened to sit with two sets of parents who were there supporting their respective sons who play for our 2nds.

Both boys had come to us from the Calder Cannons and both couples spoke glowingly of the program that Richmond, Damien Hardwick, our coaches and our development team and put together for their boys plus the interest that Hardwick and co were showing in that development.

The individual parent did not support Richmond, they were Essendon and Carlton supporters but both said that after listening to Hardwick that they felt like pulling on the boots and training there guts outs for us themselves.

Anyway the parents said there boys were involved in individual and group skills sessions, weight training, tactics and planning sessions, as well as mental preparation, plus team training.

They also were glowing with the praise for the respect and discipline there sons were being taught

What better comments could we wish to hear about our new coaching and development team.

Thanks for that Mappa - good to hear.

I'm surprised how optimistic I remain despite our on-field performances. I just get the impression that things have finally turned for the better.

 

[Odduna]

There is only so much a coach can do. Players also need to take responsability for their skill development.

The players are professional sports people. They get paid to do this. They are not little children.

 

[Phar Ace]

There is only so much a coach can do. Players also need to take responsability for their skill development.

The players are professional sports people. They get paid to do this. They are not little children.

Absolutely, but our attrition is remarkable

 

[Mac]

There is only so much a coach can do. Players also need to take responsability for their skill development.

The players are professional sports people. They get paid to do this. They are not little children.

To a certain extent maybe, but if you are the coach of low skill team, you don't just leave it to them to improve without having a big involvement in skill development, then say 'not my fault...they're grown ups!' No one will wear that from a professional coach.

But the implicaiton of what you're saying is we should be drafting players with a demostrable skill ability in required areas that give us the best chance of being able to develop them further into adequate afl footballers (which is why I'm glad Hardwick and co have fairly clear aims to drafts kids thht can kick rather than some intangible x factor or similar bs)

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

There is only so much a coach can do. Players also need to take responsability for their skill development.

The players are professional sports people. They get paid to do this. They are not little children.

But the feedback from Mappa was a glowing endorsement for the coaches and development staff, and not just Hardwick.

Given the criticism leveled at coaches and in particular, player development, in the past, this should be music to one's ears.

 

[NZtiger]

Thanks for that Mappa

Very pleased with the way the club has performed over the past year, off the field at least... This news, along with the promising showing so far from the new cubs has me optimistic about the on-field future as well. It might take a few years, but for once I actually believe we will get there.

 

[mld]

Typical uninformed supporter post.

Collins was puny when we got him and we knew it. But his skill set shouted inside and outside midfielder who can kick goals. Also a good height at 186 cm and a good overhead mark.

Injured year 1, tore it up at Coburg most of year 2 but wasn't played because he is a pure mid and we didn't want to break him.

Year 3, did more than expected averaged about 20 possessions and 1 goal a game in about ten games. People are creaming their pants about Nason now (also a third year player) who picks up around 14 possessions a game.

Year 4, interupted pre season, plays his first game in round 4 and picks up 20 possies and we get a ridiculous post like the one above.

Amazing!

Quality posting.

 

[nikolasmia]

Quality posting.

who is the girl in your avatar mild

 

[mld]

who is the girl in your avatar mild

Actor Caroline John, aka Liz Shaw - companion to third Dr (Dr Who).

 

[Phar Ace]

Typical uninformed supporter post.

Collins was puny when we got him and we knew it. But his skill set shouted inside and outside midfielder who can kick goals. Also a good height at 186 cm and a good overhead mark.

Injured year 1, tore it up at Coburg most of year 2 but wasn't played because he is a pure mid and we didn't want to break him.

Year 3, did more than expected averaged about 20 possessions and 1 goal a game in about ten games. People are creaming their pants about Nason now (also a third year player) who picks up around 14 possessions a game.

Year 4, interupted pre season, plays his first game in round 4 and picks up 20 possies and we get a ridiculous post like the one above.

Amazing!

Bit harsh LambFry: to refresh he said:

"In my opinion, Collins is a list management decision that looks like it will backfire. He's as entitled to his prognostications as you are. He didn't utter it as fact

Collins was a speculative pick in 2006 NAB AFL Draft 5th round selection No. 73 overall. Fact
This is his 4th season. Played 11 games. Has had two seasons spent overcoming osteitis pubis. Another fact?
Richmond have kept him on a weak list instead of putting him on rookie list or delisting (like Casserley). The Rookie list was a real option - other clubs do it (Hawthorn with Gary Moss for example)

Richmond already gives too much time to players because they were drafted as an early pick (JON, schulz etc), without wasting a spot on the list. Not the worst suggestion going - was he brought back too early because of the mass suspension?

There are many VFL mature age that would have been a better option. There is a bit of evidence for this now maybe..
Re deleopment, did Collins look physically and skill s wise like a player that has been in the system for 4 seasons?" I don't know, but the question was asked, not stated as fact

So yeah, think you're being a bit harsh. I like Collins alot as a player, bit like you it seems. But I rate some these comments as thought provoking and certainly not "Typical uninformed supporter post" as you have described. There are other 'mates' that fit that description more than this guy. 8)

 

[keepa lids onit]

Tigermad: absolutely great thread.

totally 100% correct. this is our no.1 problem that MUST be addressed.

our development has been no existant for years. how can a player who is playing at an AFL club not be able to hit targets??
just a small point, wasnt martin the best kick at draft camp. what did he kick on weekend 1goal 3 behinds or something? the richmond factor starting to take effect. the best kick was not so good on the weekend....

the only thing i will add is so far i have not seen any indication of a game plan, style of play, or even aspects that we are focusing on (tackling more, defensive pressure, going long and straight down the corridor, hunting in groups etc etc). one week i see us pressuring, the next week i dont see this, i see us playing posession type footy, the next week i see somethng different again...????
can we work out how were gonna play and play like this week in week out and develop this style of play, and then perfect it! and hopefully this style is appropriate and will get us to our next premiership.

like you so far i have not seen the above happening, but at least ths time we are starting with all th kids and building it up.

 

[TigerMad]

I am not saying we should send a convoy truckloads of poo to Punt Road !!

There are 1000 areas that Richmond need to improve in, but they need to be broken down and prioritised.

Until a Richmond player, not under pressure, can deliver to a teamate, we will not be competitive. Ever.
So as a coach, I would start there.

I have sat back for years, supporting whatever current coach is in charge, wrongly assuming that they can cure the cancer, no more.
I still see no improvement since Hardwick and his team applied for, and were given responsibility to improve our players.
As a very frustrated supporter, I would like disposal skills to be prioritised by the coaching group.

I am not talking about Dea last week, he was under pressure and will be better for the experience.
I am talking about the constant unforced errors, missing a target, when not under pressure.
In a game, I would like a runner to be sent out, players brought to the bench for immediate coaching, and players dropped to Coburg.

Mr Hardwick, please just give me some hope that, unlike your predessors, you are actually a coach who can help a group of athletic, skilled young men to become a team who will work for each other.
Becoming competitive is what is required before we can even think about becoming successfull.

There is a far too long list of players who did achieve their lifelong dream of an AFL career at Richmond, who should have.

The lack of player development at Richmond is the part of the Richmond club's problems that a coaching team can fix.

Please, please showme that you are addressing it.

 

[linuscambridge]

Hehe, begrudging praise. Straight lines indeed - take another look. You know he was better than that, in that game at least. I'm saying he has the confidence to turn corners (because he has support, enough encouragement and they talk) and his hitting targets has been rediscovered at the Lions, after it was lost at the Tigers.

I don't think it's any suprise to Tiger fans that Raines can play a bit, he nearly pinched the rising star coming from a long way back. The problem with Raines is that as the Tigers got worse, so did Andrew. As the players around him got worse, the pressure increased, the targets got harder to hit, Raines revealed that he did have limitations as a footballer.

I do agree with you, that confidence has made a big difference to his game, but he wasn't going to get any of that at the Tigers for a very long time. If he was still playing in the backline at Richmond he would be the weekly whipping boy along with Edwards, Hislop and White. I hesitate to call him a downhill skier because I know he tries harder than that. Let's just say he would look good in a very good team, and just as bad in a terrible team like the Tigers.

My word on development, if you can't hit a target after doing 2 pre-seasons at an AFL club, you are never going to learn. Those players just have to be moved on. End of story.

 

[doherz]

What most most disapointing for me watching us v Melb was confirmation for me that Richmond just can't develop players.

So many players on the list that just have not stepped up at all, Collins, White and Edwards are classic examples from the last game.
All three have shown glimpses, are on the fringe and were given another opportunity, and should have shown more.....effort at least.....but didn't.
Players are playing safe, defensive football, which puts teamates under even more pressure, causing turnovers and miised opportunities.

The first (and possibly only)three players picked each week based on output and consistancy would be Riewolt, Morton and Newman.
After these three, who has any (positive) consistancy?

Until Richmond show that they can develop players, it is hard to not feel sorry for a gun like Martin. Will he become a 75% paced player like Delidio?
Tambling is fast becoming a 'should have been, that never was'.
Cousins seems to have lost his biggest assett, his self drive to gut run, and been reduced to Richmond mediocrity.

The role of a coach is to develop players, physically and mentally enough, to hit targets by hand and foot, at least when NOT UNDER PRESSURE.
Most of our players have the skills to do so, but in a game cannot.
This to me is a coaching issue that has become a plague at our club.

There are only so many times that a player will bust his guts to make position, to receive, only to then be unrewarded due to a teamates basic skill error.
After a while it becomes easier to play it safe, not back your team mate, but then be caught flat footed, or not in best position when you actually do receive the ball.
Or let your teamate down by not being in the position where he expected you to be.

Who cannot picture Richo, on his third power lead, yards in front of his exhausted opponent, a clear target, only to be missed by a teamates skill error?
We loved him because he never gave up, but we seem to have just accepted that that is a frustrating Richmond thing.

For Richmond to start playing as a team, players need to hit a clear target, by hand and foot.
But there are too many players making the same basic skill errors to simply blame the players, time for the coaches to take some responsibility and explain to me why they cannot change this.

Think. How many, if any, Richmond players would you bet $100 on to hit a stationary target by foot , from thirty metres, when not under pressure?

Early days for Hardwick and co? They have been in charge of training and development 4-5 days a week for six months.....and I see no change.

I'm frustrated. Beat us because you are bigger, stronger, taller, more experienced, more tactical....but not because we can't hit a target 30 metres away.
Coaches can you please tell me what you are going to do to change it?

Because until that changes, nothing else will. We will continue to blame draft managers, and past coaches.

Did I mention that I AM FRUSTRATED?

i agree that our club lacks/lacked the ability to develop players. We wont know until roughly roud 12 next year if this is on the improve or not. We lack confidence which effects skills levels.90% of the game is played above the head and that is where we are getting smashed being so bereft of confidence and so young. Give it 18 months and then make a call on it. But yes, we have definately fallen down in this area in the past. More development coaches and specialized coaches will hepl, but we have been and still are to a point, in a bad financial position and cant afford these "luxuries"

 

[TigerMad]

My word on development, if you can't hit a target after doing 2 pre-seasons at an AFL club, you are never going to learn. Those players just have to be moved on. End of story.


[/quote]

I agree linus.
Part of me wishes Raines well......I hope Richmond can learn from it and recognise that there is a problem .......otherwise more current players will see greener grass elsewhere.
Already players from other clubs shun Richmond advances, and why not?

On the positive side, the Raines example may mean that our list is not as bad as some are saying..........

 

[St. Jude]

i agree that our club lacks/lacked the ability to develop players. We wont know until roughly roud 12 next year if this is on the improve or not. We lack confidence which effects skills levels.90% of the game is played above the head and that is where we are getting smashed being so bereft of confidence and so young. Give it 18 months and then make a call on it. But yes, we have definately fallen down in this area in the past. More development coaches and specialized coaches will hepl, but we have been and still are to a point, in a bad financial position and cant afford these "luxuries"

Agreed , Development takes months and years not weeks and months. The current football department must be given time to develope what they have and not be measured with what is being shown now as that is a reflection of the previous regime. As I said before I thought the skill set was actually reasonable in the first half, sure some mistakes were made but they were mistakes made with inexperience and intense pressure(Dea). As Doherz said, we must wait and give the coaching dept time to develope what they have and that time cannot be weeks but months and years.