Development | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Development

TigerMad

All for one and one for all
Dec 18, 2002
1,432
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What most most disapointing for me watching us v Melb was confirmation for me that Richmond just can't develop players.

So many players on the list that just have not stepped up at all, Collins, White and Edwards are classic examples from the last game.
All three have shown glimpses, are on the fringe and were given another opportunity, and should have shown more.....effort at least.....but didn't.
Players are playing safe, defensive football, which puts teamates under even more pressure, causing turnovers and miised opportunities.

The first (and possibly only)three players picked each week based on output and consistancy would be Riewolt, Morton and Newman.
After these three, who has any (positive) consistancy?

Until Richmond show that they can develop players, it is hard to not feel sorry for a gun like Martin. Will he become a 75% paced player like Delidio?
Tambling is fast becoming a 'should have been, that never was'.
Cousins seems to have lost his biggest assett, his self drive to gut run, and been reduced to Richmond mediocrity.

The role of a coach is to develop players, physically and mentally enough, to hit targets by hand and foot, at least when NOT UNDER PRESSURE.
Most of our players have the skills to do so, but in a game cannot.
This to me is a coaching issue that has become a plague at our club.

There are only so many times that a player will bust his guts to make position, to receive, only to then be unrewarded due to a teamates basic skill error.
After a while it becomes easier to play it safe, not back your team mate, but then be caught flat footed, or not in best position when you actually do receive the ball.
Or let your teamate down by not being in the position where he expected you to be.

Who cannot picture Richo, on his third power lead, yards in front of his exhausted opponent, a clear target, only to be missed by a teamates skill error?
We loved him because he never gave up, but we seem to have just accepted that that is a frustrating Richmond thing.

For Richmond to start playing as a team, players need to hit a clear target, by hand and foot.
But there are too many players making the same basic skill errors to simply blame the players, time for the coaches to take some responsibility and explain to me why they cannot change this.

Think. How many, if any, Richmond players would you bet $100 on to hit a stationary target by foot , from thirty metres, when not under pressure?

Early days for Hardwick and co? They have been in charge of training and development 4-5 days a week for six months.....and I see no change.

I'm frustrated. Beat us because you are bigger, stronger, taller, more experienced, more tactical....but not because we can't hit a target 30 metres away.
Coaches can you please tell me what you are going to do to change it?

Because until that changes, nothing else will. We will continue to blame draft managers, and past coaches.

Did I mention that I AM FRUSTRATED?
 
Players inability to hit a target by foot or hand under no physical pressue is not a coaching issue or development issue, it's a player lack of skill issue that has plagued our list for many, many years and is still a problem. Richmond love drafting this type of player. This will not change until most if not all who lack those skills are cleaned out. Because there's so many of them it means a fair few are still getting games and it's going to take time to get rid of them all.

Players like King, McMahon, Hislop, Thomson, Tuck, White, Edwards, McGaune, Jackson to name a few are just some who struggle big time with decision making/disposal. These players never had the skills in the first place to be developed. Most if not all are gone at the end of the year.
 
Hard to tell at this time if Hardwick and co have or haven't improved the skill level of the team as they are completely bereft of confidence in themselves and each other to the point that they are more worried about not stuffing up than finding the best option - kind of like a golfer standing on the tee and praying they don't slice when they should be focusing on the best place to hit the ball.

Dimma big challenge is to keep the players as bouyant as possible and try and instill confidence at training as they aren't getting in games. Look at Sunday v the Dees. They were going pretty good in the first half but you could see their heads drop so quickly in the third qtr and their general play fell apart shortly there after.
 
Has been our overall number 1 biggest problem for quite a while.

a lot of our players would be playing/starring in other teams that says a hell of a lot.
 
The thing is that those players mentioned CAN hit targets. I've seen them do it...................very, very occasionally!

That's what pisses me off, they can do it, but their mental aptitude doesn't let them do it EVERY time! (well 80 to 90% of the time anyway).

They sh!t themselves under pressure and panic, more often than not the pressure and panic is caused from a bad decision made the play before!.

Good post Tigermad, I reckon you're spot on!
 
TigerMad said:
So many players on the list that just have not stepped up at all, Collins,

Gee reckon you are being a bit harsh on this bloke. Am I the only one who thought he looked ok on Sunday? Might have injured a groin late on though.
 
Barnzy said:
Players inability to hit a target by foot or hand under no physical pressue is not a coaching issue or development issue, it's a player lack of skill issue ...........


I disagree Barnsy.
Hardwick is the coach with a player list of 46? to choose a 22 man team from.
Future drafts to be skilled by hand and foot only, regardless of attititude, courage etc (no more Rance, King, McGuane, Thursfield types).

We have one, physically still developing, marking forward, who the better teams will double team.
Therefore our game plan has to be hard running, fast movement to leading players, to set a teamate up within range, so the team has as many shots on goal in a game as possible.
Then get the ball and do it again.
There is no place in this team for someone who has the ball and who then turns it over under no pressure. NONE. NOT NEGOTIABLE.

Options for that player:
1. Deep forward line position to shoot on goal only. (what I would do as a last chance for Tuck).
2. Coburg and some specialised coaching and support. Must show improvement under slower paced VFL match conditions b4 promoted again.(King, White etc)
3. Insufficient or no improvement? Look to trade delist asap (What other clubs did with McMahon, Thompson, Hislop.......).
 
this is where we are at people.

The foundation of our list has been pathetic for a very long time and has been masked by wall paper and band aids. For the first time we have stripped the list back and are building from the foundations up. It was always inevitable that we were gonna be this bad but people refused to look at reality. This is the bottoming out we had to have, so we have to accept it.
 
TigerMad said:
I disagree Barnsy.
Hardwick is the coach with a player list of 46? to choose a 22 man team from.
Future drafts to be skilled by hand and foot only, regardless of attititude, courage etc (no more Rance, King, McGuane, Thursfield types).

We have one, physically still developing, marking forward, who the better teams will double team.
Therefore our game plan has to be hard running, fast movement to leading players, to set a teamate up within range, so the team has as many shots on goal in a game as possible.
Then get the ball and do it again.
There is no place in this team for someone who has the ball and who then turns it over under no pressure. NONE. NOT NEGOTIABLE.

Options for that player:
1. Deep forward line position to shoot on goal only. (what I would do as a last chance for Tuck).
2. Coburg and some specialised coaching and support. Must show improvement under slower paced VFL match conditions b4 promoted again.(King, White etc)
3. Insufficient or no improvement? Look to trade delist asap (What other clubs did with McMahon, Thompson, Hislop.......).

Yeah I agree so dunno what you're disagreeing with. We must move these players on. Development can't fix terminal cases in players who have a total lack of skill and talent (King, White's, Hislop's, Thomson's, etc) and thus turn the ball over at will. Only way to fix this and culling them and good drafting.
 
Barkdog said:
Gee reckon you are being a bit harsh on this bloke. Am I the only one who thought he looked ok on Sunday? Might have injured a groin late on though.

In my opinion, Collins is a list management decision that looks like it will backfire.

Collins was a speculative pick in 2006 NAB AFL Draft 5th round selection No. 73 overall.
This is his 4th season. Played 11 games. Has had two seasons spent overcoming osteitis pubis.
Richmond have kept him on a weak list instead of putting him on rookie list or delisting (like Casserley).

Richmond already gives too much time to players because they were drafted as an early pick (JON, *smile* etc), without wasting a spot on the list.
There are many VFL mature age that would have been a better option.
Re deleopment, did Collins look physically and skill s wise like a player that has been in the system for 4 seasons?
 
TigerMad said:
In my opinion, Collins is a list management decision that looks like it will backfire.

Collins was a speculative pick in 2006 NAB AFL Draft 5th round selection No. 73 overall.
This is his 4th season. Played 11 games. Has had two seasons spent overcoming osteitis pubis.
Richmond have kept him on a weak list instead of putting him on rookie list or delisting (like Casserley).

Richmond already gives too much time to players because they were drafted as an early pick (JON, schulz etc), without wasting a spot on the list.
There are many VFL mature age that would have been a better option.
Re deleopment, did Collins look physically and skill s wise like a player that has been in the system for 4 seasons?

I saw Collins hit targets by foot last year that White, Edwards, or Hislop can only dream about. He also has an ability to accumulate possesions that guys like Tambling can only dream about. First game back in ages and he gets 20 odd possessions. His kicking is usually way above the usual poor standard of the Richmond list, many to go before him.
 
You are singing from my songbook TigerMad. :clap

All those "unwanted players" were initially selected with abilities and deficiencies, and it is the coaching and development staff's responsibility to find ways to develop all players or quit them as projects. Anyone see Raines game on Saturday?
 
linuscambridge said:
I saw Collins hit targets by foot last year that White, Edwards, or Hislop can only dream about. He also has an ability to accumulate possesions that guys like Tambling can only dream about. First game back in ages and he gets 20 odd possessions. His kicking is usually way above the usual poor standard of the Richmond list, many to go before him.

Agree. His foot skills are normally great. But against Melbourne he missed a couple of targets and kicked one out on the full.
As someone previously mentioned he may be carrying an injury which would explain the sudden drop in his foot skills
 
Phar Ace said:
You are singing from my songbook TigerMad. :clap

All those "unwanted players" were initially selected with abilities and deficiencies, and it is the coaching and development staff's responsibility to find ways to develop all players or quit them as projects. Anyone see Raines game on Saturday?

Raines? Yes, he ran in straight lines and kicked pretty well. Your point is? Are you suggesting the Lions taught him how to turn corners and hit targets?
 
TigerMad said:
In my opinion, Collins is a list management decision that looks like it will backfire.

Collins was a speculative pick in 2006 NAB AFL Draft 5th round selection No. 73 overall.
This is his 4th season. Played 11 games. Has had two seasons spent overcoming osteitis pubis.
Richmond have kept him on a weak list instead of putting him on rookie list or delisting (like Casserley).

Richmond already gives too much time to players because they were drafted as an early pick (JON, schulz etc), without wasting a spot on the list.
There are many VFL mature age that would have been a better option.
Re deleopment, did Collins look physically and skill s wise like a player that has been in the system for 4 seasons?

Typical uninformed supporter post.

Collins was puny when we got him and we knew it. But his skill set shouted inside and outside midfielder who can kick goals. Also a good height at 186 cm and a good overhead mark.

Injured year 1, tore it up at Coburg most of year 2 but wasn't played because he is a pure mid and we didn't want to break him.

Year 3, did more than expected averaged about 20 possessions and 1 goal a game in about ten games. People are creaming their pants about Nason now (also a third year player) who picks up around 14 possessions a game.

Year 4, interupted pre season, plays his first game in round 4 and picks up 20 possies and we get a ridiculous post like the one above.

Amazing!
 
From memory, Collins was a young player that every prospective coach spoke about in a glowing light when reviewing our playing list during the application process. You'd think that if that many coaches rated him highly that he must have something going for him.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
RFC is gonna suffer from the legacy of Wallet and his no protection game plan.
The skills will improve as the players become more comfortable with the game plan and more confident in the protection they will receive from team mates. The more comfortable a player is with the ball, the better his disposal is.
As for sunday I thought the disposal in the first half was quite reasonable (I won't talk about the 3rd) just as it looked as if the players were starting to get the message from DH.
Sure there are players whose disposal is crap and must go (especially those with no balls) however disposal is not the be all and end all. Those who think it a good idea to sacrifice courage and competitive nature for pure skill need look at one player .... Brett Kirk.
 
I went along to the Coburg seconds game to have a look at the Richmond boys play.

Whilst there we happened to sit with two sets of parents who were there supporting their respective sons who play for our 2nds.

Both boys had come to us from the Calder Cannons and both couples spoke glowingly of the program that Richmond, Damien Hardwick, our coaches and our development team and put together for their boys plus the interest that Hardwick and co were showing in that development.

The individual parent did not support Richmond, they were Essendon and Carlton supporters but both said that after listening to Hardwick that they felt like pulling on the boots and training there guts outs for us themselves.

Anyway the parents said there boys were involved in individual and group skills sessions, weight training, tactics and planning sessions, as well as mental preparation, plus team training.

They also were glowing with the praise for the respect and discipline there sons were being taught

What better comments could we wish to hear about our new coaching and development team.