Death Penalty

[poppa x]

I don't approve of the death penalty. I don't believe anyone has the right to take the life of another person.

This.

The argument that people who are tormented by the deaths of the Bali duo should look to the USA's death penalty, Bryant, the Bombers, China and others is spurious.
Because I only have enough emotion and empathy for Australians caught in this situation.
I'd go mad if I took on the plight of everyone in the world on death row.
I love this country and love its people. How dare anyone kill one of us.

And no - we shouldn't stop aid.
And we shouldn't have an organised campaign to boycott Bali.
But if I choose never to go to Bali, then that's my business. You can please yourself.
Just as it's my business that I've never returned to Malaysia (Barlow and Chambers) and will never go to Singapore.

There's a pretty sickening lack of humanity in many Social Media forums.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

The US killed an Australian and no-one blinked an eye. In fact, I have no doubt that few reading this even know it occurred yet it was only 18 months ago.

 

[Rosy]

The US killed an Australian and no-one blinked an eye. In fact, I have no doubt that few reading this even know it occurred yet it was only 18 months ago.

Guilty as charged but I don't understand the relevance. Who was it? How and why were they killed and what for. It doesn't show on Wiki's list of Aussies imprisoned or executed abroad.

 

[Big Country]

I have no problem understanding people's outcry against the death penalty however...

I had never thought about it much until recently. A friend of mine was gunned down in the US. He was shot in the back as he ran along the road by a guy in a passing car. The state in which the shooting happened has the death penalty. Just recently the shooter was sentenced to life in prison. I find myself not satisfied with that punishment and wishing that the death penalty was given instead.

I'm a pretty black or white type of guy. I can't want the death penalty in one circumstance but not in any other. I know it's not the popular opinion in Australia but it's just how I feel atm. Maybe in time my stance will change once my anger towards the shooter subsides - if it ever does.

 

[Rosy]

So sorry to read that Big Country. I understand where you're coming from. I'd most likely feel differently if circumstances were personal. If anyone harmed my loved ones I'd probably want to kill them with my own hands. No doubt I'd find it easier to look at more objectively, or impartially, if I wasn't directly involved, angry and hurting.

I wonder if anyone here could honestly say they'd feel different about the Indonesian situation if it were one of their family facing the firing squad. I know I'd want everyone doing everything possible to try and save one of my childrens' lives. I'd feel like a hypocrite if I condoned the death penalty for strangers but felt differently for my own situation.

 

[Ian4]

The US killed an Australian and no-one blinked an eye. In fact, I have no doubt that few reading this even know it occurred yet it was only 18 months ago.

I was gonna post something along the lines of "how our govt would react if this happened in the USA..." so, is this true? because this is the first I've heard of it. is there a link/website that has information on this?

can you imagine the aust govt recalling the ambassador in this circumstance? no chance.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Christopher Havard, killed by a drone strike in Yemen in November 2013. Perhaps he was up to no good, perhaps he wasn't. Never got the chance to clear his name but few do in Obama's drone wars, which is effectively state-sanctioned murder.

 

[brigadiertiger]

So sorry to read that Big Country. I understand where you're coming from. I'd most likely feel differently if circumstances were personal. If anyone harmed my loved ones I'd probably want to kill them with my own hands. No doubt I'd find it easier to look at more objectively, or impartially, if I wasn't directly involved, angry and hurting.

I wonder if anyone here could honestly say they'd feel different about the Indonesian situation if it were one of their family facing the firing squad. I know I'd want everyone doing everything possible to try and save one of my childrens' lives. I'd feel like a hypocrite if I condoned the death penalty for strangers but felt differently for my own situation.

I personally have no problem with appeals and trying to commute the death penalty to life in prison in fact appeals make sense if a death penalty is to be carried out every avenue to ensure the condemned are guilty of the crime they have been sentenced to and it is these appeals that take time thus why the condemned spend a long time waiting for their sentence to be carried out. If it were one of my children I would do everything within my power to have their sentence commuted but I would like to think that I would still not resort to threats and abuse.

What I have an issue with is threats to Indonesia like that have come from all levels. People saying that we should cut aid is just wrong and calling for an organised boycott is again punishing the innocent who really have no control over what the government do. I still find it weird that people want to punish the innocent because their government carried out what is a legal execution of the guilty.

 

[Rosy]

I don't necessarily disagree with anything you've said brig, and I'm certainly not calling for boycotts, but between 2011 and 2015 Australia spent $55 million on a program to support Indonesia’s justice system. I do have question that continuing considering their barbaric laws and behaviour.

 

[AMPS]

Amps do you think, with hindsight, that Tony would make that aid comment again? Do you think it did the cause any favours? You can fly the Abbott flag here and point out his lack of general support but in reality it's one particular comment that is being discussed.

Probably not in regards would he make it again, and it has been widely criticised. I didn't vote for Tone but feel the pattern of abuse and criticism is unwarranted (in some cases) but entirely predictable.

 

[Rosy]

Maybe but he provides plenty of ammo. In the point in discussion I am confident the critisism is genuine for the comment in question. It came across as a threat in a very delicate situation.

 

[AMPS]

Maybe but he provides plenty of ammo. In the point in discussion I am confident the critisism is genuine for the comment in question. It came across as a threat in a very delicate situation.

We will never know if those comments were fatal.

Personally I think many conveniently forget the impact the Yudhoyono phone tapping/spying scandal may have had. I recall at the time there was a massive uproar, burning of AUST flags etc in Jakarta. Might have been saving their powder for the right time? I'm sure if it had occurred under Tone's watch that would have been brought up as another reason for the executions proceeding.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

This.

The argument that people who are tormented by the deaths of the Bali duo should look to the USA's death penalty, Bryant, the Bombers, China and others is spurious.
Because I only have enough emotion and empathy for Australians caught in this situation.
I'd go mad if I took on the plight of everyone in the world on death row.
I love this country and love its people. How dare anyone kill one of us.

And no - we shouldn't stop aid.
And we shouldn't have an organised campaign to boycott Bali.
But if I choose never to go to Bali, then that's my business. You can please yourself.
Just as it's my business that I've never returned to Malaysia (Barlow and Chambers) and will never go to Singapore.

There's a pretty sickening lack of humanity in many Social Media forums.

I couldn't possibly have said it any better Poppa Pump. Do you want government that makes decisions like the wise old sage, or the bitter teenager?

 

[Peaka]

I personally abhor the death penalty and countries that still impose it (including the US).

What I do find difficult to rationalise is the number of people who abhor the death penalty but happily support abortion. Seems inconsistent to me.

In. Relation to the calls to cutforeign aid to Indonesia this will only harm the poor the aid was intended to help. By all means decide that the aid is better spent in other areas such as Nepal but to cut it as advocated by some on certain social media forums shows their true lack of compassion.

 

[glantone]

The only argument against the death penalty that matters for me is that at present there is always a chance an innocent human being may be executed. This trumps all for me.

 

[spook]

 

[poppa x]

The only argument against the death penalty that matters for me is that at present there is always a chance an innocent human being may be executed. This trumps all for me.

Consider the Phillipino woman who got a reprieve within 3 minutes of her execution early this week.
New info cam to light a few hours before her execution.
Result? The Indonesian President gave her a reprieve.

Now imagine if this new info came to light 24 hours later.

Oops.

 

[Baloo]

I think she was always going to get a reprieve. She got caught up in the drugs clampdown but it never seemed right. When the two Indo maids were beheaded in Saudi recently, the public opinion in Indo changed significantly for her.

But you are right. No matter what I think regarding some vile criminals and their right to continue living or not, the one off chance an innocent person is executed makes me against the death sentence.

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Good piece on the tactics of the Philippines vs Australia.

http://globalnation.inquirer.net/122263/indonesia-why-aussie-pleas-failed-velosos-heard/

 

[TigerForce]

I don't like posting in this thread, but the words I heard/read from Scumbag Sean Price's motive to kill the Doncaster girl makes him a definite for this.