Death Penalty

[Ian4]

What a load of tripe to compare the Bali situation with the others you mentioned @!!

care to explain how that is tripe? 2 x drug smugglers got the death penalty while all those multiple murderers don't. how is that fair?

 

[Baloo]

care to explain how that is tripe? 2 x drug smugglers got the death penalty while all those multiple murderers don't. how is that fair?

Get your facts straight Bin4. 3 of the Bali Bombers were executed.

 

[gutfull]

care to explain how that is tripe? 2 x drug smugglers got the death penalty while all those multiple murderers don't. how is that fair?

The people you mentioned should be dead no doubt agreed !! The Bali 2 should NEVER had gone this far they were reformed 100% they were running great programs in prison this was no DOUBT Political ... Meggawatti runs the show and the *smile* weak President jumps as high as he can to deliver her needs ..They are corrupt raping millions of $$$ of the people of Indonesia and AUSTRALIA for that matter ( how dumb are we ?) The place is a SXXXXXE hole never go there , itys a 2 faced country with politicians seeking all they can grab for there pathetic families ....

 

[Ian4]

then why are we arguing? I think we agree with each other.

fwiw, I've been to bali once and hated it.

 

[Rosy]

so those arguing against the death penalty are against the bali bombers being executed? what about Martin Bryant? Julian Knight? Peter Dupas? Bandali Debs? ...

I don't approve of the death penalty. I don't believe anyone has the right to take the life of another person.

I am concerned that they can get decisions wrong** or even manufacture situations in countries with the death penalty. Indonesia is a very corrupt country from my personal experience. I wouldn't trust the powers to be at all, especially after we were arrested by a very sleazy cop. Jakarta was the pits. It's many years since I spent several months in Indonesia but I was shocked at how common place corruption was. Admittedly time in rural Sumatra was a very different experience.

**As a naive and inexperienced 19yo travelling the world, in the days well before computers and mobile phones, I feel I probably escaped a bullet. I was in line to check in at Kuala Lumpur airport. A bloke behind me asked me to hold his bag and mind his place while he went to the toilet. Warning bells rang. The hairs stood up on the back of my neck. Drugs mean death signs were everywhere. Thankfully I ignored him. When I looked around he was being escorted away by officials. I don't know if anything illegal was in that bag or if he was genuine. I shudder to think what could have happened if I was busted with something and struggling to prove my innocence. I'm sure they all try that.

 

[gutfull]

Ian l apologize l miss read your post also lm very sad that this has happened to these 2 guys .

 

[AMPS]

I'm not telling anyone how to run their country/life/club. But I also understand those that are taking up the fight.

Sadly, to me, at one stage back their I thought Bishop had actually managed to give Indonesia a way out without losing face. Bishop and her team seemed to be doing some good work. But the second Abbott mentioned the Tsunami Aid money, that was it, he pretty much ensured that the 2 Aussies would be executed.

Don't agree with the "ït's Abbotts fault" line. He was in a no win situation, and the biased will seize another opportunity to lay the boots in.

Whilst I disagree with a lot of his policies and actions and he has a propensity to stick his foot in it I can't stand the overreaction to all things that come out of his mouth

 

[Baloo]

Don't agree with the "ït's Abbotts fault" line. He was in a no win situation, and the biased will seize another opportunity to lay the boots in.

Whilst I disagree with a lot of his policies and actions and he has a propensity to stick his foot in it I can't stand the overreaction to all things that come out of his mouth

I think you need to tread what I said. It's his duty as PM to protest, appeal and try to stop the murder. But the minute he invoked Tsunami Aid, and the threat of it, he lost any chance of giving the Indonesians a way to back track without losing face.

If you cant see how stupid and naïve Abbott was to use Aid as a threat, you can't have had many dealings in Asia.

 

[AMPS]

I think you need to tread what I said. It's his duty as PM to protest, appeal and try to stop the murder. But the minute he invoked Tsunami Aid, and the threat of it, he lost any chance of giving the Indonesians a way to back track without losing face.

If you cant see how stupid and naïve Abbott was to use Aid as a threat, you can't have had many dealings in Asia.

You essentially blamed Abbott for the executions, what proof do you have, other than your own experience, that his comments made it impossible for a pardon to ensue?

Had plenty of dealings with Asia, in fact I get most of my stuff from Asia. Never had a problem in those dealings. I once returned a faulty mower and got it replaced no problems, maybe if I threatened to withdraw my patronage from said store it would have been a different story.

 

[Midsy]

This is where I am conflicted. I do think that people should accept the laws of foreign countries and if they break them, be prepared for the consequences.

But then I think of countries like SA where in our life time they had signs that said "No Blacks Allowed". Should we just sit back and allow it to happen ?

I may be wrong, but I reckon you'd have found signs like that on our own shores, not so long ago.

 

[Baloo]

You essentially blamed Abbott for the executions, what proof do you have, other than your own experience, that his comments made it impossible for a pardon to ensue?

I said, quite clearly, when Abbott decided to use Aid as a threat, he stopped any chance there was of a diplomatic solution. Whether we would have got one or not without his "Aid" reference is in no way certain and it probably wouldn't have worked in the end, but he certainly brought it to a head quickly. It put an end to the efforts of Bishop who was reading the situation correctly or at least was listening to her advisers.

My own experience, which is the experience of living and doing business in SE Asia for 18 years, is more than enough I reckon. But if you want more, I have as part of my circle of acquaintances(drinking buddies) here people who work in embassies, foreign correspondents who work for major news agencies out here and others who do business in this region. All of them felt the same sense of finality when Abbott started with the Aid.

 

[AMPS]

I said, quite clearly, when Abbott decided to use Aid as a threat, he stopped any chance there was of a diplomatic solution. Whether we would have got one or not without his "Aid" reference is in no way certain and it probably wouldn't have worked in the end, but he certainly brought it to a head quickly. It put an end to the efforts of Bishop who was reading the situation correctly or at least was listening to her advisers.

My own experience, which is the experience of living and doing business in SE Asia for 18 years, is more than enough I reckon. But if you want more, I have as part of my circle of acquaintances(drinking buddies) here people who work in embassies, foreign correspondents who work for major news agencies out here and others who do business in this region. All of them felt the same sense of finality when Abbott started with the Aid.

Fair enough, but the cynic in me thinks it another opportunity to bag abbott. Whether his comments ended the pardon chances is now moot.

 

[Baloo]

Really, if someone is intent on bagging Abbott, they don't need to make things up.

 

[Rosy]

Fair enough, but the cynic in me thinks it another opportunity to bag abbott. Whether his comments ended the pardon chances is now moot.

I think the Govt have done well in this situation but his advisers would have cringed at Tony's aid comment.

 

[AMPS]

Really, if someone is intent on bagging Abbott, they don't need to make things up.

Whilst he makes many unfortunate statements the outrage over his St Pats day comment, the *smile* happens comment and the skolling the beer show to some he will never do anything right. In some ways he is just getting his own back for the relentless attacks on Gillard and Rudd but who is going to rise above it?

 

[Rosy]

Amps do you think, with hindsight, that Tony would make that aid comment again? Do you think it did the cause any favours? You can fly the Abbott flag here and point out his lack of general support but in reality it's one particular comment that is being discussed.

 

[Baloo]

Whilst he makes many unfortunate statements the outrage over his St Pats day comment, the sh!t happens comment and the skolling the beer show to some he will never do anything right. In some ways he is just getting his own back for the relentless attacks on Gillard and Rudd but who is going to rise above it?

Malcolm Turnbull seems to have risen above it.

 

[Tommy H]

Malcolm Turnbull seems to have risen above it.

For good reason

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Amps do you think, with hindsight, that Tony would make that aid comment again? Do you think it did the cause any favours? You can fly the Abbott flag here and point out his lack of general support but in reality it's one particular comment that is being discussed.

I think he would make it again but would keep it in the quiver a bit longer. It was a desperate comment and one that probably had a place at the 11th hour.

 

[brigadiertiger]

First off I agree with the death in certain circumstances as has been mentioned the likes of Martin Bryant and Julian Knight and Bandali Debs and Adrian Bayley and ever pedophile convicted. Should drug smugglers be given the death penalty probably not but they should be given far harsher sentences than they get here let's face it if the Bali 9 were allowed to get to Australia they would be all out by now and the arguments would be about whether they were rehabilitated or not.With the amount of recidivism we see it would be highly unlikely.

Next, every person knows that if you are caught smuggling drugs in Indonesia you could face the death penalty so it should come as no surprise if caught that you end up in front of a firing squad. After ten years were they rehabilitated well they more than likely regretted their actions that is for sure and I apologise in advance for the next comment as it is quite crass but what is certain is that they will never repeat their crime or any other. Who really believes that if their sentence was commuted to life in gaol that the pressure would then be brought to bear on the Indonesian government to give them a sentence that could see them released. Again Indonesia's laws were broken Indonesia have a penalty and that penalty has been carried out.

I find it laughable that people say that the AFP should not have reported to another sovereign nation a crime that they knew to be happening there but should have allowed that crime to be committed and then arrest them in Australia. Is that because people are very much against the death penalty or because people are quite happy that they get a slap on the wrist here and we can bury our heads in the sand about what damage drugs do. Surely people can see that if a police force knows of a crime being committed in another country they are surely obligated to report it to the authorities in that country imagine the outcry if the Indonesian police knew of a crime about to be committed in Australia and decided to not tell and allow that crime to be committed.

What I find disgusting is how many people are calling for us to cut aid over the executions it is the poorest people in Indonesia that would be most affected by such, how many would die so we call it disgusting that Indonesian law allows for the death penalty and they carry it out but we would be quite ok with innocent people being adversely effected just because we do not agree with them. Not long ago there was outrage at the WA premier when he made a comment about aid to Victoria whilst arguing for a bigger slice of the GST but I suppose it doesn't matter that much when it is us saying it to another country.

In my opinion Julie Bishop has done a fine job using accepted diplomatic efforts to try and get their sentences commuted to life in gaol and good on her, it is what ever country should do for any of their citizens facing the death penalty in another country hell even Indonesia does it doesn't make them hypocrites it makes them a responsible government. No doubt her efforts were hindered by the buffoon who is running the country using aid and threats to another country surely he could have done no worse had he stood up and said just go ahead and shoot them because that is what he did but hey he took our ambassador to Indonesia back. Whilst I do not know but it would be interesting to know how many times it has occurred that a country has recalled their ambassador just because that country has followed their laws.