Coronavirus | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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Coronavirus

MD Jazz said:
That isn't the real issue. Are vaccinated people less likely to carry and transmit the virus? If it is a resounding yes then it makes sense for their to be some sort of "forced" vaccination regime. But if all the vaccine does is stop you suffering worse symptoms and you still carry and transmit like others then it should be completely voluntary.

It will definitely reduce the number of people that are "anti-vax".
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All viral vaccines are alike in that they markedly reduce illness and hopefully prevent death...but...they will not stop you contacting the virus nor carrying it and potentially transmitting it for a very short time.
This is the case with all viral vaccines..covid vax is no different from all the others.
So...why the problem. Noone carries on like this about polio or small pox vaccinations.
It is about preventing unnecessary illness and death...full stop. Nothing else is relevant here.
Repeat....absolutely NO intelligent reason for everyone to not be vaccinated.
It is human ignorance and neurotic stupidity that is the problem....there are solutions for this but they are non selective and unpalatable. ( don't take that seriously please)
 
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MD Jazz said:
That isn't the real issue. Are vaccinated people less likely to carry and transmit the virus? If it is a resounding yes then it makes sense for their to be some sort of "forced" vaccination regime. But if all the vaccine does is stop you suffering worse symptoms and you still carry and transmit like others then it should be completely voluntary.
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Even given they can still carrry the virus, if the symptoms are significantly less severe then there will be less strain on the hospital system.
 
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IanG said:
Even given they can still carrry the virus, if the symptoms are significantly less severe then there will be less strain on the hospital system.
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Yeh, but why do we still sell and consume soft drinks/chips/chocolate/processed foods/sugar etc? We basically give everyone the choice there, why should this vaccine be any different? Why should we be saving people from themselves in just this instance?
 
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pete and tys said:
All viral vaccines are alike in that they markedly reduce illness and hopefully prevent death...but...they will not stop you contacting the virus nor carrying it and potentially transmitting it for a very short time.
This is the case with all viral vaccines..covid vax is no different from all the others.
So...why the problem. Noone carries on like this about polio or small pox vaccinations.
It is about preventing unnecessary illness and death...full stop. Nothing else is relevant here.
Repeat....absolutely NO intelligent reason for everyone to not be vaccinated.
It is human ignorance and neurotic stupidity that is the problem....there are solutions for this but they are non selective and unpalatable. ( don't take that seriously please)
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But p&t, my friend on Facebook said it's an untested experimental drug. WaKe uP aNd dO yoUr rEseaRch, sHeEpLe!
 
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MD Jazz said:
Yeh, but why do we still sell and consume soft drinks/chips/chocolate/processed foods/sugar etc? We basically give everyone the choice there, why should this vaccine be any different? Why should we be saving people from themselves in just this instance?
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The effects are significantly greater in terms of the effect on the system as a whole.
 
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Giardiasis said:
No I am not against vaccinations as a principle. My personal belief is they make a lot of sense for managing the risk of debilitating illness but otherwise for illnesses that your immune system should be able to handle I'm not inclined to use them (Flu vaccinations for example). I think it's important to have long term data to access long term effects of taking vaccines and I also don't like when vaccine producers are given immunity from libel. I don't feel comfortable taking the COVID vaccines on offer for the time being given the combination that I don't think it will be debilitating for me if I get COVID (i.e. I think my immune system can get the job done), there isn't long term data to access the vaccine safety or effectiveness and I can't sue the manufacturer.
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This seems to be a misunderstanding of how vaccines work - I've had other people say "I want my immune system to be strong so I don't want to take vaccines". Vaccines give your immune system an early exposure to a virus - in attenuated or modified form so it's not dangerous - so all they are doing is giving your immune system a head start in an experience of a particular virus. They don't persist in your body, only the immune response to the virus persists. Your immune system is able to react to the presence of the real virus faster, which means shorter/no symptoms in most cases.

In all the history of vaccines there have never been long term health effects determined. Bad things either happen quickly, or they don't happen (source - Norman Swan, Coronacast). mRNA is a new type of vaccine you say? Well, yes, in terms of mass vaccination. But mRNA vaccines have been around and in clinical trials and R&D since about 1990, with no long-term adverse effects recorded.
 
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AngryAnt said:
This seems to be a misunderstanding of how vaccines work - I've had other people say "I want my immune system to be strong so I don't want to take vaccines". Vaccines give your immune system an early exposure to a virus - in attenuated or modified form so it's not dangerous - so all they are doing is giving your immune system a head start in an experience of a particular virus. They don't persist in your body, only the immune response to the virus persists. Your immune system is able to react to the presence of the real virus faster, which means shorter/no symptoms in most cases.

In all the history of vaccines there have never been long term health effects determined. Bad things either happen quickly, or they don't happen (source - Norman Swan, Coronacast). mRNA is a new type of vaccine you say? Well, yes, in terms of mass vaccination. But mRNA vaccines have been around and in clinical trials and R&D since about 1990, with no long-term adverse effects recorded.
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All correct Ant.
I assumed people understood this already but obviously not. Funny.

Yes, vaccines just expose us to a piece of the virus that stimulates our anti body production to that molecule , which then also attacks the real virus when it presents because it shares the same molecule.
In other words, a tiny bit of exposure programmes us to deal with the real thing later in life.
As you say correctly, the vaccine does not remain in our body at all, but the programmed immune response does.
What a very very clever medical break through that we did not have in the dark ages. People then would have given anything to be vaccinated against the things they and their loved ones died of.
Those who want to live in the dark ages are very welcome to go back.

I really thought everyone understood this. Why don't people get such a simple thing?
I think maybe basic medical info needs to be provided in school curriculums rather than learning an obscure language.
 
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AngryAnt said:
This seems to be a misunderstanding of how vaccines work - I've had other people say "I want my immune system to be strong so I don't want to take vaccines". Vaccines give your immune system an early exposure to a virus - in attenuated or modified form so it's not dangerous - so all they are doing is giving your immune system a head start in an experience of a particular virus. They don't persist in your body, only the immune response to the virus persists. Your immune system is able to react to the presence of the real virus faster, which means shorter/no symptoms in most cases.

In all the history of vaccines there have never been long term health effects determined. Bad things either happen quickly, or they don't happen (source - Norman Swan, Coronacast). mRNA is a new type of vaccine you say? Well, yes, in terms of mass vaccination. But mRNA vaccines have been around and in clinical trials and R&D since about 1990, with no long-term adverse effects recorded.
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I don’t see how what I said contradicts your explanation of how vaccines work.

I don’t believe in the history of vaccines that one has been rushed to mass use as quickly as these have. Why take the risk when the odds overwhelmingly are that I will recover if I catch COVID?
 
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MD Jazz said:
Yeh, but why do we still sell and consume soft drinks/chips/chocolate/processed foods/sugar etc? We basically give everyone the choice there, why should this vaccine be any different? Why should we be saving people from themselves in just this instance?
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One you give up the principle of protecting private property rights you can find any excuse to trample them further in reach of some utilitarian goal.
 
Giardiasis said:
I don’t believe in the history of vaccines that one has been rushed to mass use as quickly as these have. Why take the risk when the odds overwhelmingly are that I will recover if I catch COVID?
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I doubt there's been a virus with as much resources devoted to it in such a short time as this. And unless you are going to claim that the drug approval process has been compromised the vaccines still have to go through the same approvals as other drugs.
 
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IanG said:
I doubt there's been a virus with as much resources devoted to it in such a short time as this. And unless you are going to claim that the drug approval process has been compromised the vaccines still have to go through the same approvals as other drugs.
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I wouldn’t claim it has been compromised. It’s possible it could have been, especially given the political pressure to roll it out.
 
Redford said:
Wonder as well if it won’t be long before we see insurers adjusting premium rates, exclusions etc for the un vaccinated ?

www.theage.com.au

US employers lose patience with the unvaccinated

One CEO agonised over his decision to impose a vaccine mandate on employees, and said he dreads the prospect of having to fire any holdouts.
www.theage.com.au www.theage.com.au
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Yep this was a just matter of time. The backlash coming...
 
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Giardiasis said:
I don’t see how what I said contradicts your explanation of how vaccines work.

I don’t believe in the history of vaccines that one has been rushed to mass use as quickly as these have. Why take the risk when the odds overwhelmingly are that I will recover if I catch COVID?
Click to expand...

Do you object to bring immunised for polio, smallpox, MMR?

All those things you'll probably beat with your immune system as well. But your might not.
 
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