Coronavirus

[Harry]

feel for the cricketers who were chasing their million dollar contracts in the middle of a pandemic who are now stuck in India.

even more so for the millions of poor people who had the virus brought to them and have no where to run.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

For me the difference is you've asked the government if it is ok for you to go to North Korea and they have said yes.

You would want to have a pretty good reason to go. My reasoning would be that it needs to be a reason worth risking my life for.

The cricketers have pulled out of plenty of tours to problem spots. The only difference here is the obscene money on offer for IPL.

 

[mrposhman]

I don't know the answer to your initial question Posh, but I could pose a similar question about Australians visiting the UK last year. We didn't threaten our own returning citizens with jail time when things went pear-shaped in the UK, we just dealt with them in hotel quarantine like we should.

If hotel quarantine isn't up to scratch then the federal government should build a dedicated quarantine facility which isn't in the middle of the cities. I'm tired of the hypocrisy of this federal government who have refused to deal proactively with quarantine. They've had 13 months to build a national quarantine facility but instead politicized the Labor states hotel quarantine program whenever there was an outbreak.

When the Vic gov makes a perfectly reasonable pitch for a dedicated facility, old potato head Dutton comes and smacks it down with disdain. 3 days later were announcing jail time punishments for returned travelers...

From what I've read this morning Scomo has already backflipped on the tough stance on this since so many high profile (white) people have criticized the measures. Scomo is nothing but a poll watcher who licks his finger to feel the breeze before making a decision.

I agree with the argument around the dedicated quarantine facilities and this will become more prevalent. The government has already highlighted that some level of quarantine may be required up until 2023. By then I'm sure we will have more travel bubbles than just with NZ so either we block up hotels (spending a lot of money) or we build these facilities. I would think there would absolutely be a good ROI on it. Not sure why they are dragging their feet so much on it.,

From what I can tell, the level of transmission and positive tests within HQ has shot up and that is related to India.

If people have chosen to go there, then they take the risk if they can't get home. A lot of this was personal choice and there are a lot of people in Australia that have family overseas. Other than my kids I have no other family in Victoria. I'd love to see my family but I can't due to the risk of flights etc. Other people seem to see this differently and seem like they should be able to come and go as they please.

Its also in the stats, by far and away the highest numbers of arrivals and leavers come from 2 countries, China and India. The rest largely seem to be doing the right thing.

 

[BT Tiger]

If people have chosen to go there, then they take the risk if they can't get home.

I agree with what you've said except for the quote above.

As per TBR's first hand account, the advice for travellers was you'll end up in hotel quarantine upon your return, not that you'll be thrown in jail or fined. That is a significant change in policy.

 

[DavidSSS]

They've had a year to build one. They have Christmas Island. They have army facilities outside Darwin. They have instead made it illegal for Australians to return to Australia. They would not have done this if it was the UK or US. We know this because they didn't. They are a disgrace.

This.

When the virus was running rampant in the US and the UK there were no threats that people would be gaoled if they returned to Australia from either of those countries, despite the fact that the UK variant was known to be more contagious.

The government needs to explain why they are applying different rules for India.

As for quarantine facilities, the pandemic has been going for 12 months. If they can't get their act together and organise safe quarantine facilities outside the centre of town in 12 months they should quit because they are not competent to organise a p*** up in a brewery let alone run a national government.

I was also stunned that the Victorian government's proposal for quarantine facilities was a plan to build these by September. September? Really? I hope they mean September 2020 because this should have been done months ago. Doesn't help that the incompetent Feds have done nothing about proper quarantine, apart from try and avoid responsibility.

Then there is the vaccination clusterf***. If you think we will be fine look at what is happening in South Korea now, increases in infections and not enough vaccine.

DS

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

At the time when everyone was committing and leaving, the situation in India was very steady and under control and had been for some time. They were handling the pandemic as well or better than anywhere in the world. The cases curve you posted a few pages back shows it really took off after preparations for the IPL were well underway and before that it had been in steady decline.

At the time everyone was leaving Cricket Australia and the federal government's advice was that the situation in India was under control and the risk was minimal. No-one was anticipating the carnage that has transpired since.

People allowed themselves to be lulled into a false sense of security, then. It is not safe to travel during a pandemic. The situation in every country is subject to sudden change. That is so fundamentally simple that it shouldn't even need saying.

If you offer me a free holiday to e.g. the USA right now, I am giving it to someone else.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I don't dispute the risk, but the government should make the risks known.

If closing the door completely is an option then put it on the table as part of the initial decision to go. It didn't happen with the US, Italy, Brazil or the UK when they were completely out of control so it was hardly an obvious conclusion to draw.

The government was forced to react after people were using counterfeit COVID-free certificates to get here. The more infected people in hotel quarantine, the greater the risk of it getting loose.

I can understand it's not a popular decision with everyone. It's polarising. But I believe they are acting in the best interests of the vast majority which is what they are elected to do.

 

[Harry]

I don't dispute the risk, but the government should make the risks known.

If closing the door completely is an option then put it on the table as part of the initial decision to go. It didn't happen with the US, Italy, Brazil or the UK when they were completely out of control so it was hardly an obvious conclusion to draw.

when did you decide to leave TBR and why?

 

[Baloo]

I cannot for the life of me understand how Australia can ban it's own citizens from returning. What's the point of an Australian passport if you doesn't allow you entry into Australia.

If the government is concerned about the quarantine facilities containing the virus, then ship everyone to the place in NT that seemed to work well, or Christmas Island, or tents in where ever if that's what it takes for the Gov to feel they can quarantine people safely. Ultimately the Government will have blood on it's hands if an Australian citizen who isn't allowed to come back catches COVID and dies.

At the very least make the regulation that no one can enter Australia that has been in India within the last 2 weeks. That will allow a 3rd country to act as a quarantine facility. Test on departure, test on landing, 2 weeks quarantine. That should be enough. But really, passport holders shouldn't be forced to wait in a 3rd party country.

 

[tigerman]

I don't know the answer to your initial question Posh, but I could pose a similar question about Australians visiting the UK last year. We didn't threaten our own returning citizens with jail time when things went pear-shaped in the UK, we just dealt with them in hotel quarantine like we should.

If hotel quarantine isn't up to scratch then the federal government should build a dedicated quarantine facility which isn't in the middle of the cities. I'm tired of the hypocrisy of this federal government who have refused to deal proactively with quarantine. They've had 13 months to build a national quarantine facility but instead politicized the Labor states hotel quarantine program whenever there was an outbreak.

When the Vic gov makes a perfectly reasonable pitch for a dedicated facility, old potato head Dutton comes and smacks it down with disdain. 3 days later were announcing jail time punishments for returned travelers...

From what I've read this morning Scomo has already backflipped on the tough stance on this since so many high profile (white) people have criticized the measures. Scomo is nothing but a poll watcher who licks his finger to feel the breeze before making a decision.

Agree

The Federal government has been negligent in not taking control of quarantine, it has been a massive failure of leadership by Morrison.
Until the worlds population was vaccinated there was always going to be three and possibly 4 waves, the history of the Spanish flue tells us that. Surely health experts would've advised the Federal government of that fact.
Christmas Island was used to quarantine people returning from Wuhan, and Howard Springs was used to quarantine people off the Diamond Princess. After those people had been quarantined Morrison then decided it wasn't a good idea anymore, so he closed Christmas Island and Howard Springs as an option. Then at the end of last year he changed his mind again and thought Howard Springs was a good idea again when Victoria had a spike in cases.........................

 

[eZyT]

This Govt are simply complete *smile*.

yes, India is a mega hotspot, and we dont want to end up like them,

But surely an effective, federally run, offshore quarantine facility is the answer to getting Australian citizens home?

oh, wait, jails are state run, lets put them in jail.

and with the savings we make on not building a Q facility,

we will write out some grants for new pump houses for cotton irrigators, and helicopter pads for Adani, and maybe an indoor wave pool for Pymble Ladies College?

how about filliing one of our LNG mega tankers with O2 and diverting it to India? how about a Navy hospital full of ventilators?

These *smile* are the most useless, corrupt, ideologically bankrupt, unlikeable, nasty bunch of *smile* we have ever had in Canberra by a mile

 

[tigerman]

I left a few hours after the word came that we would be locked out a couple of days later.

For me though, because of the minuscule money I'm on in the context of the IPL, the way my contract is structured and the kindness of my employers, I am not really taking any sort of financial hit at all, in fact I'm probably in front.

If I was in a situation where it was going to cost me a significant amount of money to leave, I definitely would have had a dilemma on my hands, as I had no real concerns from a health and safety perspective, I left purely because of the logistics of potentially being locked out for a longer period of time and not being able to get back to my family and the risk of being stuck in India once the IPL bubble ended which would quickly become a pretty expensive business.

Just out of curiosity TBR, were you able to use your return ticket? If not had the prices been jacked up much?

 

[spook]

I cannot for the life of me understand how Australia can ban it's own citizens from returning.

I reckon it's illegal.

 

[tigerman]

These *smile* are the most useless, corrupt, ideologically bankrupt, unlikeable, nasty bunch of *smile* we have ever had in Canberra by a mile

And that's their good points easy

 

[eZyT]

I reckon it's illegal.

a former Indian bloke on The Drum was quoting the commonwealth deal he made when he renounced his Indian citizenship and took up Australian.

basically says I'll be loyal to Oz, and Oz will protect you in all circumstances.

our passport also carries a promise of free and safe passage to the bearer.

Again, it goes back to Howards ideology 'we decide who comes here and the circumstances under which they come'

'we' not being Australians, but black hearted *smile* like Peter Dutton et al.

they make the nastiest door *smile* you ever encountered look like mother Theresa.

they think they can do as they *smile* please.

cause they can. cause Australians live with their heads in Im an ex-tennis *smile* wife-celebrity, so watch me dance while I *smile* up a garish chipboard Renovation and *smile* a farmer at first sight

 

[AngryAnt]

I agree with the argument around the dedicated quarantine facilities and this will become more prevalent. The government has already highlighted that some level of quarantine may be required up until 2023. By then I'm sure we will have more travel bubbles than just with NZ so either we block up hotels (spending a lot of money) or we build these facilities. I would think there would absolutely be a good ROI on it. Not sure why they are dragging their feet so much on it.,

From what I can tell, the level of transmission and positive tests within HQ has shot up and that is related to India.

If people have chosen to go there, then they take the risk if they can't get home. A lot of this was personal choice and there are a lot of people in Australia that have family overseas. Other than my kids I have no other family in Victoria. I'd love to see my family but I can't due to the risk of flights etc. Other people seem to see this differently and seem like they should be able to come and go as they please.

Its also in the stats, by far and away the highest numbers of arrivals and leavers come from 2 countries, China and India. The rest largely seem to be doing the right thing.

I doubt the ROI would be positive. The 3k i had to pay might cover the hotel room cost but not the salaries of the nurses, security, catering etc etc.

I'm sure the governments got together to work out the maximum charge that was palatable politically, but it's nowhere near break-even.

 

[Baloo]

If people have chosen to go there, then they take the risk if they can't get home. A lot of this was personal choice and there are a lot of people in Australia that have family overseas.

If the Australian Government wanted to restrict access to Australia for Australians (if they legally can), then at the absolute minimum it needs to give people some warning. "We will shut the borders to any Australian who has been in India for that last 2 weeks as of <insert date 7 days from announcement>." That's the absolute minimum. Give Australians a chance to get back. If they want to go a step further, allow Australians back after they have been outside of India for 2 weeks and have cleared all tests etc. If they want to be a bit more human, extend it to Australian Permanent Residents.

But what they have done is so *smile* bad that even Andrew Bolt of all people has taken shots at #SloMo's Government.

 

[mrposhman]

I doubt the ROI would be positive. The 3k i had to pay might cover the hotel room cost but not the salaries of the nurses, security, catering etc etc.

I'm sure the governments got together to work out the maximum charge that was palatable politically, but it's nowhere near break-even.

I probably wasn't clear. The ROI would be a comparison between current HQ and a different facility setup. I don't think either of the 2 scenarios would be profitable and probably both require government subsidies, but I would expect the cost to be similar and might open up properties to be filled with International travellers from bubbles in order to kick start tourism. Ultimately they should be looking at it from that perspective if they actually believe we will need facilities for at least another 2 years which is what the govt have indicated.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

If the Australian Government wanted to restrict access to Australia for Australians (if they legally can), then at the absolute minimum it needs to give people some warning. "We will shut the borders to any Australian who has been in India for that last 2 weeks as of <insert date 7 days from announcement>." That's the absolute minimum. Give Australians a chance to get back. If they want to go a step further, allow Australians back after they have been outside of India for 2 weeks and have cleared all tests etc. If they want to be a bit more human, extend it to Australian Permanent Residents.

That defeats of the purpose of the ban. Situation is out of control but we're going to allow a last-minute rush of people who would endanger the nation? May as well not have a ban at all.

The ban will be relaxed as soon as medical advice allows. The state governments based their border decisions on the advice of their CMO's. Similar here.

Once again the left being politically opportunist and howling like banshees. How is it "racist" if our cricketers are banned from coming back? As stated earlier, cruel but necessary.

 

[DavidSSS]

I still reckon they should use cabins in caravan parks for quarantine - they are there right now, likely empty, get supplies from local towns helping the local economy, lots of benefits to be had.

DS