Coronavirus

[The_General]

Big Pharma - Drug & Device Companies, Lawsuits & Facts

Big Pharma consists of powerful drug manufacturers that are often accused of unethical marketing practices and promoting dangerous medicines.

www.drugwatch.com

DrugWatch.com is funded by The Peterson Firm. A law firm that appears to concentrate on class action lawsuits. [That always makes me think of that Matt Damon film where he refers to himself as an ‘ambulance chaser’. Hmmm, must stop thinking about Matt Damon…]

So, where was I? Basically, let me see if I have this right:

Jeff may or may not be the real name of a person who represents DrugWatch.com
DrugWatch.com is a high content marketing site created and run by AMAG
AMAG works for The Peterson Firm
The Peterson firm exists to make pursue legal class actions
Class legal actions are a big money maker in the US
DrugWatch doesn’t really exist outside of a URL. It’s purpose is not to give balanced information, but to harness people into class action lawsuit clients for Peterson

 

[Sintiger]

It is approved................ in Iran. Novavax is both safer and more effective than the Pfizer, Moderna and Astrazeneca vaccine yet still not

There is no “yet” about it. The reason it is not approved is because Novovax has only just lodged the data with the TGA . Drug Companies almost always lodge applications with the US FDA first because of the size of the market and it’s not approved there yet.
It will most probably be approved in the next few months and should make a difference because there is an element of the population waiting for it

 

[larabee]

Got an update on this Killerbee ? Two weeks on and Victoria still registering 1200 cases a day. NSW down to 170. 317 in hospital in Victoria. 170 in NSW.

yeah, even though daily cases in VIC are still stubbornly high, active cases are coming down. They went up 51 today to 9632, but that's down from 17302 just a week ago. Yesterday and today are the first days since 29th Sept where there were less than 10000 active cases in VIC.

Hospitalisations are also coming down. VIC are at 317 today and NSW at 192. NSW were at about the same as VIC (309) on the 3rd Nov.

The Reff for VIC has been increasing the last few days, but is still below 1 ( just - 0.98) but has been at or below 1 for almost a month.

If you want a visualisation that shows that vaccines are working, then the one below I reckon clearly does the job. Hospitalisations across Aus peaked in late Sept then started to drop as vaccination uptake hit 80% first dose in NSW, even as active cases continued to climb. Active cases peaked in late October and except for a couple of blips there's been a steady decline.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in Australia | Data

Data visualisations tracking the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) in Australia. Updated frequently. Embeddable infographics. A volunteer-run, fact-checked project tracking the outbreak.

www.covid19data.com.au

 

[Redford]

yeah, even though daily cases in VIC are still stubbornly high, active cases are coming down. They went up 51 today to 9632, but that's down from 17302 just a week ago. Yesterday and today are the first days since 29th Sept where there were less than 10000 active cases in VIC.

Hospitalisations are also coming down. VIC are at 317 today and NSW at 192. NSW were at about the same as VIC (309) on the 3rd Nov.

The Reff for VIC has been increasing the last few days, but is still below 1 ( just - 0.98) but has been at or below 1 for almost a month.

If you want a visualisation that shows that vaccines are working, then the one below I reckon clearly does the job. Hospitalisations across Aus peaked in late Sept then started to drop as vaccination uptake hit 80% first dose in NSW, even as active cases continued to climb. Active cases peaked in late October and except for a couple of blips there's been a steady decline.

View attachment 14100

Coronavirus (COVID-19) in Australia | Data

Data visualisations tracking the novel coronavirus (COVID-19) in Australia. Updated frequently. Embeddable infographics. A volunteer-run, fact-checked project tracking the outbreak.

www.covid19data.com.au

So shy can’t Victoria get its case rate down ?

 

[larabee]

So shy can’t Victoria get its case rate down ?

Dunno. I’m definitely not an expert, just someone who looks at data.
I’d guess that there is a higher rate of infection in the community in VIC than there is in NSW due to the lower compliance to the health rules in VIC during the second wave because of lockdown fatigue.
So that leads to more cases, but because the vast majority are now double vaxxed, the high case numbers don’t turn in to high hospitalisation numbers.
Vaccines work, eh?

 

[Redford]

Dunno. I’m definitely not an expert, just someone who looks at data.
I’d guess that there is a higher rate of infection in the community in VIC than there is in NSW due to the lower compliance to the health rules in VIC during the second wave because of lockdown fatigue.
So that leads to more cases, but because the vast majority are now double vaxxed, the high case numbers don’t turn in to high hospitalisation numbers.
Vaccines work, eh?

Yeah vaccines work but clearly we’ve got a highly defiant - reckless proportion of the population that are going to cause problems for some time to come yet.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Yeah vaccines work but clearly we’ve got a highly defiant - reckless proportion of the population that are going to cause problems for some time to come yet.

Not really. The objective now is to drip feed it in until it’s endemic without overwhelming hospitals.

 

[The_General]

So shy can’t Victoria get its case rate down ?

We left Lockdown with significantly more cases and daily infections than NSW. We have had a lot of protests here.
Our demographics aren't the same (we have more construction and manufacturing I believe). Our climate is colder, which seems to be playing at least a small factor. They were vaccinated earlier than Vic, so we were behind there too.
It's possible we live more densely than NSW too?
I think the comparison is a bit apples and oranges and only serves political arguments personally.

 

[Redford]

We left Lockdown with significantly more cases and daily infections than NSW. We have had a lot of protests here.
Our demographics aren't the same (we have more construction and manufacturing I believe). Our climate is colder, which seems to be playing at least a small factor. They were vaccinated earlier than Vic, so we were behind there too.
It's possible we live more densely than NSW too?
I think the comparison is a bit apples and oranges and only serves political arguments personally.

Not buying much of that.

 

[Redford]

Not really. The objective now is to drip feed it in until it’s endemic without overwhelming hospitals.

That’s not answering the question. Why, when we are close to 90% full vax in Victoria do we have such a higher volume of cases and hospitalisations v NSW at their same point in time ? Especially with the easing approach that we took to opening up v NSW’s more liberal approach.

Excuses like the weather etc don’t cut it for me. It’s been raining in Sydney for weeks. And citing past infection rates and the lag theory doesn’t either. We’ve totally stagnated running 1000-1200 cases a day for the last 2 weeks. We’re not seeing a dedicated slide in numbers like NSW has.

Victoria accounts for 14,000 of the 17,000 active cases in Australia.

Something is not right in this state and never has been right throughout.

 

[RoarEmotion]

That’s not answering the question. Why, when we are close to 90% full vax in Victoria do we have such a higher volume of cases and hospitalisations v NSW at their same point in time ? Especially with the easing approach that we took to opening up v NSW’s more liberal approach.

Excuses like the weather etc don’t cut it for me. It’s been raining in Sydney for weeks. And citing past infection rates and the lag theory doesn’t either. We’ve totally stagnated running 1000-1200 cases a day for the last 2 weeks. We’re not seeing a dedicated slide in numbers like NSW has.

Victoria accounts for 14,000 of the 17,000 active cases in Australia.

Something is not right in this state and never has been right throughout.

Ok understand. I’d be guessing.

More wet weather equals more time inside equals more spread.

Potentially there are population level cultural differences that mean when people spend time inside they do it with larger groups of people on average than in other states.

Not sure what else it could be but I’m speculating.

 

[larabee]

That’s not answering the question. Why, when we are close to 90% full vax in Victoria do we have such a higher volume of cases and hospitalisations v NSW at their same point in time ? Especially with the easing approach that we took to opening up v NSW’s more liberal approach.

Excuses like the weather etc don’t cut it for me. It’s been raining in Sydney for weeks. And citing past infection rates and the lag theory doesn’t either. We’ve totally stagnated running 1000-1200 cases a day for the last 2 weeks. We’re not seeing a dedicated slide in numbers like NSW has.

Victoria accounts for 14,000 of the 17,000 active cases in Australia.

Something is not right in this state and never has been right throughout.

I don't know why VIC has got more cases than NSW, I doubt there is a simple one size fits all answer.

(BTW, there are 12591 active cases in Australia, and Victoria accounts for 9632 of them, but same point.)

But the virus is still hanging around in both VIC and NSW, just at different levels. In both states, daily cases have plateaued - the Reff number has been hovering between about 0.8 and 1.0 for a while now.
VIC finally got under 1.0 on 23rd Oct, has dipped as low as 0.8 on 5th Nov and has ben up and down, and back up (to 0.98) since.
NSW got under 1.0 on 14th Sept., dipped to 0.75 (17 Oct), climbed to 1.01 (26 Oct), dipped again to 0.75 (2nd Nov), peaked at 1.16 on the 9th and has now got back down to 0.9.

The virus is still out there in both VIC and NSW, and it's infecting mostly the vaccinated because most of the population are vaccinated.

NSW Reff



VIC Reff

 

[AngryAnt]

my bad. didn't realise that.

igorancism on my part

No worries. I know that because I watched Syriana and George Clooney made a big deal about another guy speaking terrible Farsi. Good film actually

 

[The_General]

Not buying much of that.

Facts are facts.
I'm not selling. You can go look em up yourself.

If you ask me, we've got a bigger bunch of anti-vax fucktards here in Victoria. We've got a lot more rebellious anti-authoritarian people who just want to say "*smile* you" to a government, when the same things being done here are being done elsewhere in the world, let alone in Sydney.

 

[Redford]

Facts are facts.
I'm not selling. You can go look em up yourself.

If you ask me, we've got a bigger bunch of anti-vax fucktards here in Victoria. We've got a lot more rebellious anti-authoritarian people who just want to say "*smile* you" to a government, when the same things being done here are being done elsewhere in the world, let alone in Sydney.

The weather has been terrible in Sydney for weeks. That’s hardly an excuse for Victoria to use considering. They have a huge construction industry themselves as well. And we’re almost at the same level of vax as them as well. Can’t accept any of those reasons General Motors.

For mine, we have a three pronged issue. Of the 10 percenters (if we were to call them that), we have: a) a more militant core amongst them leading to more reckless/less protective behaviour than in NSW. Something you’ve highlighted also. Protests, anti to any safety measures etc etc. It’s *** endless with them; b) a stronger cultural component in Victoria that needs much more education and support to prevent spread amongst its members. Dunno what we do about a) but we can address b).

The third element is a general lackadaisical nature across venues in Victoria. This vax certificate thing is a joke. Just as I said it would be. The shops, the pubs etc I went to over the last week I reckon 50% at best were applying any security around it. One pub I walked into… no QR…showed the bloke behind the bar my certificate and he said “Ah don’t worry about it…we don’t check any of that stuff.” Compared to Queensland and NSW where I spent a fair bit of time earlier in the year, they’re much more rigid around that sort of thing.

 

[lamb22]

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

EDIT: Correction and qualification in my post 20,349.

 

[lamb22]

Why are COVID cases in India decreasing, despite the low double vaccination rate?

The festive season in India did not lead to any surges and the prediction of a third wave during October–November did not turn out to be right.

theconversation.com

 

[Harry]

Fascinating data coming out of England. After I posted some UK data possibly indicating that people 30 plus in the UK who are vaccinated are more likely to be infected than unvaccinated, the data in the UK government link below shows that fully vaccinated people between 10 and 59 are TWICE as likely to die from Covid as unvaccinated people. I did a double take when I saw the figures. Totally counter intuitive.

The data is in table 4 of the Excel spreadsheet and it needs a bit of scrolling because there is no direct comparison but its very clear. Over the last 5-6 months (to end of September) rates of death for fully vaccinated are roughly twice the rates for unvaccinated in the 10-59 age group

For all older age groups the benefit of vaccination is clear. Death rates for unvaccinated people are much higher in all those groups.

However when you think about it makes sense. The vulnerable are those 60 plus. In Victoria 98.5% of all deaths are 50 plus. On a risk reward basis vaccination is a no brainer for that cohort. For younger people based on the UK data maybe not so much (and maybe even negative)

This data is obviously relevant to the discussion on vaccination of children and vaccine passports.

If people over the age of 30 are more likely to be infected if they are vaccinated and if people aged 10 -59 in the UK are more likely to die of Covid if they are vaccinated the scientific argument for mandatory vaccination is severely weakened.

I'm looking forward to the segment on the Project called " UK people aged 10 -59 twice as likely to die of Covid if vaccinated"

THE ABC and Guardian could run a segment called "Pandemic of the vaccinated in 10 -59 year age groups in the UK."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

so you're saying you shouldn't get vaccinated if your under 60 based on that data? Surely can't be right.

 

[RoarEmotion]

Fascinating data coming out of England. After I posted some UK data possibly indicating that people 30 plus in the UK who are vaccinated are more likely to be infected than unvaccinated, the data in the UK government link below shows that fully vaccinated people between 10 and 59 are TWICE as likely to die from Covid as unvaccinated people. I did a double take when I saw the figures. Totally counter intuitive.

The data is in table 4 of the Excel spreadsheet and it needs a bit of scrolling because there is no direct comparison but its very clear. Over the last 5-6 months (to end of September) rates of death for fully vaccinated are roughly twice the rates for unvaccinated in the 10-59 age group

For all older age groups the benefit of vaccination is clear. Death rates for unvaccinated people are much higher in all those groups.

However when you think about it makes sense. The vulnerable are those 60 plus. In Victoria 98.5% of all deaths are 50 plus. On a risk reward basis vaccination is a no brainer for that cohort. For younger people based on the UK data maybe not so much (and maybe even negative)

This data is obviously relevant to the discussion on vaccination of children and vaccine passports.

If people over the age of 30 are more likely to be infected if they are vaccinated and if people aged 10 -59 in the UK are more likely to die of Covid if they are vaccinated the scientific argument for mandatory vaccination is severely weakened.

I'm looking forward to the segment on the Project called " UK people aged 10 -59 twice as likely to die of Covid if vaccinated"

THE ABC and Guardian could run a segment called "Pandemic of the vaccinated in 10 -59 year age groups in the UK."

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopula...ths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland

What are you looking at that leads you to this conclusion? I’m perplexed plus your logic is flawed (worked example below). Here is the headline from those who analysed this from what you linked. It’s in the link on the right.

- - -

Main points

Between 2 January and 24 September 2021, the age-adjusted risk of deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19) was 32 times greater in unvaccinated people than in fully vaccinated individuals.
The weekly age-standardised mortality rates (ASMRs) for deaths involving COVID-19 were consistently lower for people who had received two vaccinations compared with one or no vaccinations.
ASMRs take into account differences in age structure and population size to allow comparisons between vaccination status groups; however some differences between the groups such as health status may remain and partly explain the differences in ASMRs.

- - -

So based on the data you sent, and adjusting for age, you are 32 times more likely to die if unvaccinated than vaccinated. Not a great case for not getting vaccinated as you suggest.

- - -

The problem with the logic you sent through is you haven’t thought through population sizes and nor have you thought through age spreads. If we just tackle population size here. And use a 95% vaccination rate and 100% infection rate (which will in of itself bias to anti vax so is very conservative)

Imagine there are 100 50 year olds and 95 of them are vaccinated and 5 of them aren’t.

Now imagine they all get Covid and 2 of the unvaccinated ones die and 6 of the 95 unvaccinated ones die.

The anti vax headline will be 3 times as many vaccinated 50 year olds die than unvaccinated 50 year olds. (6 vs 2) This is the headline you have posted that made you do a double take.

If you do the maths though. 2 in 5 = 40% unvaccinated died and 6 in 95 unvaccinated. = 6.3%. So in this theoretical example you are 6-7 times more likely to die unvaccinated.

- - -

The fact you sent this through as proof does my head in because it just reinforces to me that the social media you are subscribing to prays on your and many others lack of statistical /mathematical knowledge. (Year 9 level stuff). I’m sure it’s emotionally appealing but it is literally leading to so much death and misery.

 

[lamb22]

Table 4 does show the correllation. Overall mortality (not covid deaths as I first thought) is about twice the rate in the vaccinated group as in the unvaccinated group in 10 -59 age group.

For example :

on

24 September rate of death per 100,000 for vaccinated is 2.2, unvaccinated is 0.9%
17 September vax 2.2% unvaxxed 1.3%
10 Sep Vax 2.7% Unvax 1.4%
3 Sept Vax 2.3% Unvax 1.4 %
27 Aug Vax 2.2% Unvax 1.4 %
20 Aug Vax 2.5% Unvax 1.5%
and so the pattern goes back to March

However I've looked at footnote 8 and it states that a greater amount of people at the older part of that age group are vaccinated and younger people are not as extensively vaccinated and as mortality rates are higher for older people, this will increase the mortality rates for the vaccinated population compared to the unvaccinated population. That makes sense so the figures and the argument need to be qualified appropriately. Note taken.

Lies, damn lies and statistics.

It would be useful to see a break down in smaller age groups ie 10 - 19, 20 - 29 etc.