-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
City rail network in meltdown
- Thread starter pahoffm
- Start date
poppa x said:
My personal preference is close to this. Have a flat fee for buses and trams (you cannot control when the person gets on or off), and the fee for trains based upon a fixed price between each station (depending upon distance and infrastructure etc).
Tiger74 said:
Not very egalitarian of you T74? ;D
Are the tickets really more expensive because they are subsidising tickets from outer suburbs?
The system should be, amongst other things, a peak hour delivery tool. As a society we are trying to reduce our reliance on cars, and we should do all we can to get people on public transport. That means people in the outer suburbs, who have been forgotten by nearly all public transport development, need to encouraged onto trains, which are the only option to get people to where the jobs are. Rather than suffering overcrowding, the system needs to keep pace with demand.
The fella who was recently sacked from Melbourne Uni (I think for being critical of the government on transport issues) insists that main problem with congestion (given current infrastructure) is the scheduling, and that combinations of expresses and the like at peak times would ease congestion.
All cities, of course, have unique travel problems. Melbourne's is that it is geographically huge, and public transport infrastructure hasn't grown at the same rate. When was the last train line built? We should be aiming to meet the need. It should be cheap for all. Usable for all. Both for the inner-suburb elite, and outer-suburb plebs! Instead we play the blame game (see Phantom's post :
.
In one of Jeff Kennetts madder moments he suggested public transport should be free because the cost of collecting the tickets was greater than the revenue earned. A Squillion public servants (no doubt in the ticketing department) howled him down. As did the Anti-Jeff people who objected without ever thinking about the issues.
But he had a point. And I think it is even more relevant today. The cost of developing a new ticketing system, including the hardware infrastructure needed onboard trams, trains and buses, PLUS the day to day cost of running the system, policing it and accounting for the revenue between the Private Operators, is likely to at worst exceed the day to day revenue earned, or at best be a marginal excercise.
Wipe out fares and all the bullsh*t that accompanies them and we can then get down to the real issue of getting bums on seats.
But he had a point. And I think it is even more relevant today. The cost of developing a new ticketing system, including the hardware infrastructure needed onboard trams, trains and buses, PLUS the day to day cost of running the system, policing it and accounting for the revenue between the Private Operators, is likely to at worst exceed the day to day revenue earned, or at best be a marginal excercise.
Wipe out fares and all the bullsh*t that accompanies them and we can then get down to the real issue of getting bums on seats.
Mr Pumblechook said:Not very egalitarian of you T74? ;D
Are the tickets really more expensive because they are subsidising tickets from outer suburbs?
The system should be, amongst other things, a peak hour delivery tool. As a society we are trying to reduce our reliance on cars, and we should do all we can to get people on public transport. That means people in the outer suburbs, who have been forgotten by nearly all public transport development, need to encouraged onto trains, which are the only option to get people to where the jobs are. Rather than suffering overcrowding, the system needs to keep pace with demand.
The fella who was recently sacked from Melbourne Uni (I think for being critical of the government on transport issues) insists that main problem with congestion (given current infrastructure) is the scheduling, and that combinations of expresses and the like at peak times would ease congestion.
All cities, of course, have unique travel problems. Melbourne's is that it is geographically huge, and public transport infrastructure hasn't grown at the same rate. When was the last train line built? We should be aiming to meet the need. It should be cheap for all. Usable for all. Both for the inner-suburb elite, and outer-suburb plebs! Instead we play the blame game (see Phantom's post :
The outer burbs is hardly forgotten. You take one train from Frankston to the CBD which is 35km, and you get there in an hour. For me to get from Oakleigh to Box Hill which is about 12km, I need to take three different buses, and the trip takes about an hour and a half minimum and costs exactly the same.
There is obviously no way in Hades I take the bus for this very reason.
The transport system was originally two tiered. One was the trams for inner city movements, and the second the trains to bring people in from the suburbs to work in the CBD.
The problem is today fewer and fewer people work in the CBD, everyone hates buses, and the train network is not designed for cross suburban travel.
As I mentioned, I would make trams/buses a flat fee, and this will help the outer burbs because the reality is there will never be a train line from Frankston to Dandenong, or from Werribee to Deer Park. Cross suburban travel will for the most part be catered for by buses, as we do not have a metro style network that allows easy cross suburb travel (without heading in towards the CBD).
Also even if a slight increase occurs for those travelling the mass limits (which really is just the Dandenong/Frankston/Lilydale lines to the CBD), they will still be financially better off than paying for petrol and $37 per day CBD parking.
poppa x said:
I've actually been a big fan of this for a long time. As you say though, the politics of getting it up are huge. Be interesting to see how the cost of barriers, security, ticketing, accounting, evasion, and all the other factors compare to the cost of increasing the current subsidy to 100%
poppa x said:
This position has long been advocated by Prof Frank Fisher. Lots of social benefits according to him.
http://www.vcec.vic.gov.au/CA256EAF001C7B21/WebObj/Submission69-FrankFisher/$File/Submission%2069%20-%20Frank%20Fisher.pdf
Mr Pumblechook said:
Their solution is to punish road users in an attempt to get them to switch to public transport.
The other option "free public transport" is rewards based and more likely to get community support compared to the lefts tired old argument of imposing levies.
poppa x said:
Agree, I don't like the idea of road tolls on major arterials, will just push more traffic onto feeder roads.
Also disagree with the arguments in the Age article against free PT. They say on one had it won't reduce traffic congestion, and at the same time more trains will be needed to overcome overcrowding. Which is it?
No matter which Party is in power.Fact of the matter is no state govt of the present or the past wanted to spend billions of dollars to get the infrastructure up to scratch.Phantom said:
They always look for the cheaper option.Phanto is right though the "New Trains" are not suited to our conditions.They were brought because they came cheap,While our own local maker Comeng was totally ignored despite the fact that its trains have a proven record in our conditions.
Tubytiger said:Apparently the whole network around flinders st was shut down around 7pm last night due to power failures... Surely it cant get any worse....
They keep saying that....and guess what.......it usually does
The State wont improve either as under the GRAND SOCK PUPPET PREMIER and his band of merry Cretins there will be so many inquiries will make the Nuremburg trials look like a pantomime.
You sell off ammenities and utilities and services to private sector and its all about profit margins, share holders and the bottom line with service well down the list.
I am not politivcally motivated and hate all pollies but both left and right factions of government are responsible for this mess, as Kennet sold off alot of services but Brumby im a default premier and Bracks along with Kosky, Bachelor, Bronwyn Pike and the rest of the simpletons in the cabinet would have to be without a shadow of a doubt one of the most embarrassing and incompetant bunch of imbeciles to ever hold government.
Over taxed and nothing to show - health system rooted, education rooted, police rooted, ambulance service rooted, aged care rooted, stamp duty at levels incomprehensible to oither states, reliance on speed cameras and pokie machines fair dinkum they are a joke.
I have more respect for the chewy that got stuck on my thong today than i have for these overpaid, ingrates.
You sell off ammenities and utilities and services to private sector and its all about profit margins, share holders and the bottom line with service well down the list.
I am not politivcally motivated and hate all pollies but both left and right factions of government are responsible for this mess, as Kennet sold off alot of services but Brumby im a default premier and Bracks along with Kosky, Bachelor, Bronwyn Pike and the rest of the simpletons in the cabinet would have to be without a shadow of a doubt one of the most embarrassing and incompetant bunch of imbeciles to ever hold government.
Over taxed and nothing to show - health system rooted, education rooted, police rooted, ambulance service rooted, aged care rooted, stamp duty at levels incomprehensible to oither states, reliance on speed cameras and pokie machines fair dinkum they are a joke.
I have more respect for the chewy that got stuck on my thong today than i have for these overpaid, ingrates.
:clapping
If the Liberal party has any nous they will build a platform based on transport, power, water, police.
Do that well and things are on the up. They should be the four messages every day.
Our city and state has shown all the issues that have been patchworked for the past 15 years.
Do that well and things are on the up. They should be the four messages every day.
Our city and state has shown all the issues that have been patchworked for the past 15 years.
What a 3rd world city we now live in.
Dumby's definitely learned the skill of spinning when it comes to providing feedback. This dud had nothing but jealousy when Slacks won the election and now that he's taken over, he does nothing but walk around the public with an ego centric 'look at me' smirk on his face.
Dumby's definitely learned the skill of spinning when it comes to providing feedback. This dud had nothing but jealousy when Slacks won the election and now that he's taken over, he does nothing but walk around the public with an ego centric 'look at me' smirk on his face.
