China

[Baloo]

So what's your suggestion? Stick our heads in the sand, trust the the CCP will act in the best interests of global health and cross our fingers that this never happens again?

This is an unprecedented global health issue. Yes there have been pandemics in the past but unlike the 1920s Spanish Flu we now have the means to investigate and potentially act to prevent a future pandemic. The global health authorities need all the information to do so and China needs to get on board and do its part.

Otherwise we may just be back here again in 5, 10, 15 years.

You can investigate why the local government hid it from the central government and then why the central stalled for a bit. Will that achieve anything? I don't know.

The risk of new pandemics has been talked about for years as humans invade more of nature, even with ice caps and glaciers melting there is a real risk of something nasty popping back up.

It was China this time and SARS. Middles East had MERS. Swine flu I think Mexico. Even Australia with Hendra.

What's more important is that every government takes a long hard look at their own response, identify the failings and put things in place to prevent it happening again. But do you really believe the current western governments are prepared to do that publicly and risk looking like they dropped the ball? Trump? BoJo? Even Morrison?

Makes more sense to sort out your own response and reaction first before looking at where others failed. You can control what you do within your borders.

 

[Ridley]

You can investigate why the local government hid it from the central government and then why the central stalled for a bit. Will that achieve anything? I don't know.

The risk of new pandemics has been talked about for years as humans invade more of nature, even with ice caps and glaciers melting there is a real risk of something nasty popping back up.

It was China this time and SARS. Middles East had MERS. Swine flu I think Mexico. Even Australia with Hendra.

What's more important is that every government takes a long hard look at their own response, identify the failings and put things in place to prevent it happening again. But do you really believe the current western governments are prepared to do that publicly and risk looking like they dropped the ball? Trump? BoJo? Even Morrison?

Makes more sense to sort out your own response and reaction first before looking at where others failed. You can control what you do within your borders.

Agree that all governments in time need to assess their own response. Particularly those in USA and UK that appear to have failed miserably.

CCP stalled a bit? At least 3 weeks which is a lifetime in terms of this virus. A report last week found that the spread of the virus most likely would have been contained to 5% of what we see now if the CCP had have acted with transparency when it was first made aware of the true nature of the virus.

Every precaution should be taken to prevent a future outbreak of this scale. To do that a greater understanding of the source of the outbreak is essential. That source was in China so the CCP needs to cooperate with a global effort. If the source was Australia then the Australian Government would need to cooperate.

The world can not sit on its hands and do nothing to appease the corrupt CCP. Over 250K people are dead and who knows where it will end.

 

[Baloo]

Agree that all governments in time need to assess their own response. Particularly those in USA and UK that appear to have failed miserably.

CCP stalled a bit? At least 3 weeks which is a lifetime in terms of this virus. A report last week found that the spread of the virus most likely would have been contained to 5% of what we see now if the CCP had have acted with transparency when it was first made aware of the true nature of the virus.

Every precaution should be taken to prevent a future outbreak of this scale. To do that a greater understanding of the source of the outbreak is essential. That source was in China so the CCP needs to cooperate with a global effort. If the source was Australia then the Australian Government would need to cooperate.

The world can not sit on its hands and do nothing to appease the corrupt CCP. Over 250K people are dead and who knows where it will end.

But the source seems to be known, or at least agreed, by the scientists in this field. Bat to Pangolin to Human via wild animal trading at wet markets.

I really don't understand what this independent global investigation is going to achieve that's not already known. If you really expect the chinese, or any government in the world, to allow an "independent" investigation on how they handled something within their own country, then you're in lala-land. No country will agree to that. You need to invade and then do your analysis and review.

 

[Ridley]

But the source seems to be known, or at least agreed, by the scientists in this field. Bat to Pangolin to Human via wild animal trading at wet markets.

I really don't understand what this independent global investigation is going to achieve that's not already known. If you really expect the chinese, or any government in the world, to allow an "independent" investigation on how they handled something within their own country, then you're in lala-land. No country will agree to that. You need to invade and then do your analysis and review.

No worries lets just trust the CCP to act in the best interests of global health. Then lets talk again in another 15-20 years when the next pandemic comes out of China. That's lala-land.

Two major outbreaks, one catastrophic have eminated from the one country in the 21st century. *smile* needs to change. But the CCP still hasn't banned live animal trading in wet markets. All countries need to do this.

 

[MD Jazz]

What's interesting about the China debate is that China hasn't changed. Apparently it was OK to be dealing with them, and actually encouraged by business and government over the last decades. Their behaviour has been consistent for their lack of transparency.

The current situation is in some ways a failure of planning. A pandemic has been on the radar but what government wants to commit to funding and planning for something that is entirely unpredictable as to when & if it might happen and how bad it will actually be?

 

[AngryAnt]

A report last week found that the spread of the virus most likely would have been contained to 5% of what we see now if the CCP had have acted with transparency when it was first made aware of the true nature of the virus.

Doubt it. Look at the US, did nothing for two months even after the severity was known.

 

[Ridley]

Doubt it. Look at the US, did nothing for two months even after the severity was known.

No argument about how poor the US response has been. However what the report said that if the CCP had have acted appropriately the spread would have been mostly contained before it got out of Wuhan or China.

 

[AngryAnt]

No argument about how poor the US response has been. However what the report said that if the CCP had have acted appropriately the spread would have been mostly contained before it got out of Wuhan or China.

Got a link to the report Rids?

 

[Ridley]

Got a link to the report Rids?

Here it is Ant.

China's costly cover-up: Coronavirus cases might have been reduced by 95% with immediate action

If Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95%.

www.zmescience.com

I noticed that this is dated March 19 but the report I saw was in local media either last week or the week before. The information is the same though as I distinctly recall the differnt outcomes quoted on a 1, 2 or 3 week delay in action (3 weeks is how long they believe the delay in action was).

 

[Baloo]

No worries lets just trust the CCP to act in the best interests of global health. Then lets talk again in another 15-20 years when the next pandemic comes out of China. That's lala-land.

Two major outbreaks, one catastrophic have eminated from the one country in the 21st century. **** needs to change. But the CCP still hasn't banned live animal trading in wet markets. All countries need to do this.

Look, and independent review would be nice, but it's just not going to happen. Wouldn't happen with any other country either. Even if they agreed the team going in for the inspection would be severely restricted in what they could and couldn't do.

Best of trying to make things better within the realms of possiblity.

 

[DavidSSS]

Yep, China should have reacted quicker and let everyone know quicker. But what was the delay, maybe a month.

Compare this to the so-called Spanish Flu 100 years ago. The thought is that it might have originated in the USA, but there is a lot of uncertainty around this. Spanish Flu has this name because the Spanish King contracted the disease and the Spanish authorities were not hiding the fact that a virulent version of the flu was going around. Other countries, such as the UK, USA, France etc were hiding the fact of this flu and did so for months if not longer, because they were already having issues with mutinies in their armies fighting WWI, and the fear was that this would lead to massive numbers of troops walking away from the front.

We have not learned to be transparent. 100 years after the Spanish Flu we are still hiding things. Western countries back then (and who knows how they would react today), China now, someone else tomorrow, who knows?

Any country which isn't warning about a potential pandemic is to be condemned and every country needs to learn the lesson. We should have learned it 100 years ago, the Spanish Flu spread because of the very large movement of people for the time was occurring with demobilisation of troops after WWI. We now see that sort of movement of people across the world in the course of everyday lives, but Spanish Flu showed us, ahead of time, what happens with a pandemic combined with movement of large numbers of people - it spreads like crazy.

The other lesson of Spanish Flu is that the second wave of the outbreak was worse than the first, let's hope we learned from that.

DS

 

[MB78]

Has anyone received a video on China apparently shooting people that have Covid-19? I have been forwarded it a few times now. I just hope it’s fabricated, but it doesn’t look good.

 

[MB78]

Has anyone received a video on China apparently shooting people that have Covid-19? I have been forwarded it a few times now. I just hope it’s fabricated, but it doesn’t look good.

I found the answer it looks like its fake news.

 

[Brodders17]

Look, and independent review would be nice, but it's just not going to happen. Wouldn't happen with any other country either. Even if they agreed the team going in for the inspection would be severely restricted in what they could and couldn't do.

Best of trying to make things better within the realms of possiblity.

exactly.

 

[Tigers of Old]

As Australian companies inevitably struggle in the wake of this virus, I hope that the Government is careful to not allow wealthy Chinese to come in & buy up big in terms of land, property & assets..can see it happening though.

 

[AngryAnt]

Here it is Ant.

China's costly cover-up: Coronavirus cases might have been reduced by 95% with immediate action

If Chinese authorities had acted three weeks earlier than they did, the number of coronavirus cases could have been reduced by 95%.

www.zmescience.com

I noticed that this is dated March 19 but the report I saw was in local media either last week or the week before. The information is the same though as I distinctly recall the differnt outcomes quoted on a 1, 2 or 3 week delay in action (3 weeks is how long they believe the delay in action was).

Thanks Ridley, seems a legit report from the organisation funded by Bill and Mrs Gates. Interesting conjecture - I guess possible that if they went full lockdown as soon as possible this particular outbreak of the virus could have stopped. Or could it?

"Deploying non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) quickly is extremely effective in preventing the geographical spread of the virus. If non-pharmaceutical interventions (NPIs) had been applied 3 weeks earlier the spread could have been limited by 95%, researchers found.

Furthermore, delaying containment measures even more would have been devastating. An additional delay of 1, 2, or 3 weeks, would have led to a 3-fold, 7-fold, or 18-fold increase, respectively."

But it doesn't say the virus wouldn't have ultimately spread to other countries - only that growth rates would have been much slower.

 

[Jake]

As Australian companies inevitably struggle in the wake of this virus, I hope that the Government is careful to not allow wealthy Chinese to come in & buy up big in terms of land, property & assets..can see it happening though.

Can Australians buy land in China?

 

[Tigers of Old]

Can Australians buy land in China?

Quick google suggests you can but it's very difficult.

Can Foreigners Buy Property in China? Chinese Property Law

Thinking about purchasing real estate and wondering can foreigners buy property in China or not? Read these Chinese propery laws to find out.

www.mychinainterpreter.com

 

[scottyturnerscurse]

Crafty. Almost got into Morrison's office.

China’s Military Is Tied to Debilitating New Cyberattack Tool (Published 2020)

An Israeli security company said the hacking software, called Aria-body, had been deployed against governments and state-owned companies in Australia and Southeast Asia.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Midsy]

The next generation might not have a choice about their standard of living if China's aggressive global domination plan isn't put into check. If China took over the Pacific ocean and restricted trade in and out of Australia, and The Donald decided it wasn't anything to do with him, what choice would Gen Z have? Join the CCP? They may just have to harden the f up for the common good right now while Australia finds a new major trading partner. We did it when Britain cut us off in the 1970s to join the EU, with a bit of creative thinking we can do it again.

BREXIT says hello...!