Can't wait til we play the Crows

[ropeshow]

we will get beaten

if it was here though i think it would be a different scenario

adelaide SURELY despite injuries still have better players than our kids ........

 

[Jason King]

I'm happy that you are satisfied with mediocrity. You must believe we can move up the ladder with simple tweaks to the game plan and list. Would be nice to visit your planet some time, I'm sure it's always sunny.

Why take this out of context? Baloo just stated that he follows his team to win, states nothing about wanting the team to lose draft picks. If you begrudge him for that, then that is a poor reflection on you.

 

[Panthera Tigris]

They did draft well without noticeably tanking I'll give them that but they also got their best player and the best player in the comp (Ablett) from a father son as well as Scarlett (their best defender and one of the best ever) as well as a few others from father sons. It's a bit different and not many clubs get that lucky thus they have to take full advantage of the drafting system.

Granted Geelong did get lucky with father son pick ups as you rightly point out, however they are not the only team to have rebuilt to be a finals contender without going down to the bowels of the ladder or through tanking. Sydney and Brisbane (I do note that J.Brown is also a father son pick up) seem to have rebuilt into competitive outfits without going to the bottom rungs. I suppose these two clubs are similar to each other in that they are in a more competitive sporting market so simply can't afford to 'bottom out.' Maybe the Victorian Clubs should learn something from the Northerners (or expat Southerners, turned Northerners) who never look to bottom out. My point being that I am on the side of those whom think that clubs don't necessarily need to come from the bowels of hell to build a good list capable of venturing deep into September.

More to the topic heading.......On paper, one would think that Adelaide are a much better team than where they are on the the ladder presently. Therefore the head says that they should beat us fairly comfortably next week. Though stranger things have happened so here's hoping for a Tigers win. Regardless of the result, they will still finish above us come seasons end.

 

[Big Cat Lover]

I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion BCL. Like many pro-tankers you assume people against the tank are flower sniffers who can't see reality. But go ahead and play the man, it's the classic darksider move when struggling.

Firstly, as per the thread title I can't wait till we play the crows either, looking forward to seeing the kids showing further improvement. It also takes us one step closer to the end of the year when step 2 of the clean out occurs.

You say I'm a pro-tanker - I say I'm pro future. Melbourne is looking like a great example of planning for the future. Do you think their supporters are cursing the sanchez goal? If anything their lack of success (real or manufactured) should steel the club to not want to experience a similar period again. Richmond may have the same steely resolve but surely if you have superior onfield talent your ability to improve and be successful is increased?

I think we all want the club to be successful, I think we'd both love the team to win every week, reality is it will not happen. I'm prepared and would prefer short-term pain for some success down the track. I think the club have not managed the opportunity very well (probably have not managed much very well) and now we are actually deserving of assistance we draw the short straw.

I think many have underestimated the importance of high & multiple draft picks and put to much emphasis purely on development (not accusing you of this).

 

[Baloo]

Do you think their supporters are cursing the sanchez goal?

Those that are happy about the goal on reflection/hindsight, I can understand and have no qualms about it as long as they hurt on game day.

Those Melbourne supporters that were cheering, waving flags and singing our song with glee on game day - well those guys disgust me.

 

[23.21.159]

Like I said, I try, but I just can't understand anyone who isn't happy with Richmond winning a game of football. It is, when you strip everything away, the core reason why we're all here. To win games of football.

Not quite correct. It's to win PREMIERSHIPS. I don't consider myself a dyed-in-the-wool pro-tanker, but if losing that game against Melbourne would have moved us closer to our next premiership than winning it did, then I'd prefer sanchez to have shanked the kick any day.

 

[Tiger74]

Not quite correct. It's to win PREMIERSHIPS. I don't consider myself a dyed-in-the-wool pro-tanker, but if losing that game against Melbourne would have moved us closer to our next premiership than winning it did, then I'd prefer sanchez to have shanked the kick any day.

would you have cheered if he missed, and sang the demons song post game though?

I think this is what Baloo's issue is. Not people acknowledging "we are better off losing this one", but those who actively chase and celebrate it.

Have to admit I'll never have any sympathy for Dees supporters again after watching MCC members in red and blue sing our song on that day

 

[23.21.159]

I'll be honest and admit that at the time I was glad we won ... I have (non-Australian) kids who I am trying to get interested in the Tiges and any win helps.

But I guess this is the real difference between the pro and anti tankers. I suspect both sides of the fence now realise in hindsight that that game and to a lesser extent the second half of 2008 were all better off lost. The pro-tankers are simply the ones that are more willing to accept the losses at the time.

 

[Baloo]

Not quite. The pro wanted losses before the first bounce. I could accept the losses afterward and see how it actually made our future a bit brighter thanks to the farce that is the AFL priority pick system, but before and during the game, the only thing I wanted was a win.

 

[Mikee]

You are right, that win has really lifted the club and seen Sanchez go to another level with his career. And look at the depression it has created at Melb - a win/win if ever I've seen one. Oh and those end of season wins in 2008, they really created that winning culture. Yes, the management of our progress has been extremely well handled.

I want my club to do everything in it's power to assemble the best playing list possible. If this means we lose some games by playing a kid instead of a Sanchez then I can see the long term benefit. If we try and play kids in different positions and we lose a game then so be it. If the kid has gathered some valuable experience in the process its a bigger benefit. Of course you do not wanting them instructing players not to try and I think all players try their guts out when on the field, but was i doing cart wheels when sanchez kicked that goal - no. Meaningless win that has had absolutely zero long-term benefits, other than making us look like a laughing stock for the over the top celebrations after the win.

Great Post. Amazing how some have their heads so far up their you know what that they refuse to see reality. Agree with everything you said.

GO TIGES!!!

 

[nqtiger]

You have to think what's best for the club going forward when talking about tanking Baloo not just I want to win every game.

What if Melbourne adopted your attitude last year? They wouldn't have both Scully and Trengove and if they could do it again I'm sure they would. I didn't get the non-tanking bridages argument of a "winning culture" and we should try and win every game. As I kept saying to them, what did the winning the last 8 out of 11 in 2008 do for us? They didn't listen.

It got us locked and loaded barnzy , oh and tyrone vickery i think.......lol

Simmonds playing is a great Tank move....keep him in all season.....if we beat adelaide and hawthorn keep on going as they are do our muppet supporters honestly believe that those two clubs wont tank? oh add west coast to that list.

The rewards outweigh the stigma.

 

[Baloo]

I find it ironic that those pro-tanking are normally the ones most scathing at our players when we lose matches.

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

Lets face it. There is no need to tank. We aren't good enough to win more than 4 games period.

 

[TygerTyger]

A quick quiz for the pro-tankers....

1 Is losing ok if it means we can instruct Cotchin / Martin / etc not to go 'too hard' because we want to save them for a better year?
2. Would it be ok for richmond to place a huge bet on losing, and then instruct players to deliberately lose? (the money being won would be helpful in luring marquee players)
3. Should we merge with Melbourne -- that would certainly net a few high draft picks

 

[Barnzy]

A quick quiz for the pro-tankers....

1 Is losing ok if it means we can instruct Cotchin / Martin / etc not to go 'too hard' because we want to save them for a better year?
2. Would it be ok for richmond to place a huge bet on losing, and then instruct players to deliberately lose? (the money being won would be helpful in luring marquee players)
3. Should we merge with Melbourne -- that would certainly net a few high draft picks

You obviously don't understand what 'tanking' is. You would never, ever tell your players to not put in 100% or not go 'too hard'. That would be a sure fire way to have them lose all faith in you and you know they are always going to try their best anyways. As we saw last year with Melbourne, the coach/club rests players that are under an injury cloud, sends them in for early surgeries, plays players out of position and 'experiments', etc. Melbourne were very smart with what they did, getting the best possible outcome for themselves and taking full advantage of the drafting system before the compromised drafts hit. Maybe if we were as smart as them in the last few years we wouldn't be in this disaster of a mess.

 

[Baloo]

May have been smart in some ways, but they lost McLean and Davey was umming and ahhing about whether he wanted to stay there.

Players aren't stupid and to make the AFL they have to have that win at all costs mentality where losing isn't an option. You don't have to tell a player not to go in hard but if he sees the coach move your best defender to play on the HHF/Bench, then he knows that his ability to win is being taken away from him. As a professional athlete, that is definitely going to play on your mind.

 

[Barnzy]

May have been smart in some ways, but they lost McLean and Davey was umming and ahhing about whether he wanted to stay there.

Players aren't stupid and to make the AFL they have to have that win at all costs mentality where losing isn't an option. You don't have to tell a player not to go in hard but if he sees the coach move your best defender to play on the HHF/Bench, then he knows that his ability to win is being taken away from him. As a professional athlete, that is definitely going to play on your mind.

McLean is a very average player, they traded him for pick 11 to get another youngster. No big loss at all especially with what they were able to get with tanking.

Maybe it might play on their mind for a bit but hasn't seem to affected Melbourne this year at all, has it? Really doesn't matter though, I don't see us being good enough to win more than 4 games this year without tanking. I definitely think we should tank next year though and ensure we don't win more than 4, especially since we will be probably be eligible for a 1st round P.P which would be incredibly valuable assuming the P.P's are still in play (99% sure they are).

 

[Darren]

GCT Crows can't wait 'til they play us...

after the game yesterday v Geelong, I now believe it is sad but true