Burqa Poll

[MightyTiger]

Is a burqa religious dress or cultural dress?
I think there is some difference.
I know some Muslims wear them and others don't.

More cultural then anything, most female Muslims wear the simple scarf that just covers the hair, only a small amount would wear the full Burqa.

 

[Disco08]

Are they trying to ban the full burqa or both?

There are plenty of places you wouldn't be able to have a covered face without religious grounds. Court is one example. I imagine airports would be another.

Shops, banks, public transport, most public institutions........

Try walking into your local centrelink with a motorcycle helmet on.

 

[Willo]

Is a burqa religious dress or cultural dress?
I think there is some difference.
I know some Muslims wear them and others don't.

Does it make a difference Willo?

As long as I do not violate decency laws, and comply with lawful requests from relevant authorities, I reckon I can wear anything I like regardless of whether I am Muslim, male or female, Tigers supporter or whatever.

It was in reply to the op Streak. I think it does make a bit of difference. Religious beliefs are a bit different to cultural dress.
Religious beliefs are a bit different to cultural dress.
I don't think too many wars were fought over dress sense. Religious beliefs however.....

 

[Rosy]

As long as I do not violate decency laws, and comply with lawful requests from relevant authorities, I reckon I can wear anything I like regardless of whether I am Muslim, male or female, Tigers supporter or whatever.

Yep but that seems to be the issue. Different laws for different people.

 

[Baloo]

My understanding is that it's religious. A bit like Jews and the yarmulke. Not all wear one.

 

[MightyTiger]

There are plenty of places you wouldn't be able to have a covered face without religious grounds. Court is one example. I imagine airports would be another.

The minute you walk into a Court you are searched, I doubt someone could smuggle something in without it being noticed these days.

 

[Streak]

There are plenty of places you wouldn't be able to have a covered face without religious grounds. Court is one example. I imagine airports would be another.

Shops, banks, public transport, most public institutions........

Try walking into your local centrelink with a motorcycle helmet on.

There was a court case in WA recently and it was established that a Muslim woman giving evidence had to remove her burqa. If I recall correctly, one of the points raised in the judges consideration was that the women would also have to do so in an Islamic court.

And the woman in question told the court that she had worn it for a long time, removing it only when in the presence of her family, or for medical or public security reasons. But the judge ruled that the case had to follow proper judicial proecdure, which meant no face covering, to ensure a fair trial.

 

[Rosy]

Are they trying to ban the full burqa or both?

Not sure Dsico but I get the impression it's more about the face being covered.

 

[Streak]

An article on the recent WA case for those interested

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/muslim-witness-must-remove-burqa-judge-shauna-deane/story-e6frg13u-1225907283532

 

[Willo]

My understanding is that it's religious. A bit like Jews and the yarmulke. Not all wear one.

Sorry, I disagree Baloo.
I think I read somewhere it was to preserve a womans modesty and not "inflame" men. There is evidence that it was worn long before Islam.

 

[Streak]

Yep but that seems to be the issue. Different laws for different people.

We must have our wires crossed here Rosy.

I reckon that the law applying to a Muslim women wearing a burqa is the same law that applies to me wearing one, and I am not Muslim. If I want to wear one I can, as long as I comply with any relevant laws, which is what I would think a Muslim woman should have to do.

Can you think of a specific example where the law is applied differently?

 

[Rosy]

There was a court case in WA recently and it was established that a Muslim woman giving evidence had to remove her burqa. If I recall correctly, one of the points raised in the judges consideration was that the women would also have to do so in an Islamic court.

I was at legal hearing recently and a lady was wearing a burqa. A man in a different hearing was ordered to remove his cap but provided a letter and was permitted to wear it on medical grounds.

 

[Rosy]

Can you think of a specific example where the law is applied differently?

I agree with what you say but I think there are different laws. Disco and myself have both given examples.

 

[Streak]

I was at legal hearing recently and a lady was wearing a burqa. A man in a different hearing was ordered to remove his cap but provided a letter and was permitted to wear it on medical grounds.

Was the lady involved in the actual proceeding, or merely present? The case I was referring to the lady was a witness, so maybe there is some difference there.

But I am also pretty sure that if a judge ordered you to do something in a courtroom and you did not comply, you could either be ejected or charged with contempt.

 

[Streak]

I agree with what you say but I think there are different laws. Disco and myself have both given examples.

Based on those examples, I don't think there are different laws. You, Disco or myself have just as much right to wear a burqa as a Muslim women, or not wear one as the case may be, in any of those situation. I do not believe religion comes into it, other than that anyone who saw us wearing a burqa might accept that as defference to our apparent religious beliefs.

 

[Rosy]

Was the lady involved in the actual proceeding, or merely present?

But I am also pretty sure that if a judge ordered you to do something in a courtroom and you did not comply, you could either be ejected or charged with contempt.

Yes to the first part.

In regard to the second part I agree but I also think there are different standards. I suspect you can get expemtions on religious grounds, as with medical grounds. Forget courtrooms though. Take Disco's example of banks or mine of airports. Burqas are acceptable in both as far as I know. Imagine trying to wear a balaclava in one. Both conceal the person's identity.

 

[Streak]

Yes to the first part.

In regard to the second part I agree but I also think there are different standards. I suspect you can get expemtions on religious grounds, as with medical grounds. Forget courtrooms though. Take Disco's example of banks or mine of airports. Burqas are acceptable in both as far as I know. Imagine trying to wear a balaclava in one. Both conceal the person's identity.

Ah, now I get it.

The issue isn't the burqa per see, it is the idea that you could have you face covered in those situations.

My bad.

But really, any religious tolerance in those situations has got to be cultural. That is, a decision of those controlling the area to allow a burqa to be worn. I am sure the law, whatever it actually is, applies just the same to a burqa as it does to a bike helmet or a balaclava.

 

[Rosy]

Based on those examples, I don't think there are different laws. You, Disco or myself have just as much right to wear a burqa as a Muslim women, or not wear one as the case may be, in any of those situation. I do not believe religion comes into it, other than that anyone who saw us wearing a burqa might accept that as defference to our apparent religious beliefs.

Not so sure about that. I can't imagine you being allowed in a bank or an airport as a male wearing a burqa.

 

[Rosy]

Ah, now I get it.

The issue isn't the burqa per see, it is the idea that you could have you face covered in those situations.

My bad.

But really, any religious tolerance in those situations has got to be cultural. That is, a decision of those controlling the area to allow a burqa to be worn. I am sure the law, whatever it actually is, applies just the same to a burqa as it does to a bike helmet or a balaclava.

Yep to the first bits.

No to the last bit. Women wear burqas in airports and banks. I am sure they wouldn't be allowed to wear a full face bike helmet in those places.

We seem to be on the same wavelength in one regard though. Should be the same laws for everyone. I just don't think that's the case.

 

[Brodders17]

I am not sure about that line of thinking Brodders. Are our laws really based on Christian beliefs, and if so, what sort of Christianity? I myself do not profess to be of any religion, and the only one I know much about is the Catholic teachings from the Vatican because it is always in the news.

I thought for a start that they were

1. Against birth control
2. Against abortion
3. Against IVF and similar techniques

But these are all legal in Australia.

I do agree that our Politicians talk about Christian beliefs, but really, they spout any old thing if they think it would win them votes in my opinion. The basic tenets of or laws seem to be pretty similar with other countries with the odd exceptions here and there.

At the end of the day, this is not a debate I can have anyway, because I don't know about the subject. So like I said, as long as someone doesn't affect me (and I mean all the people of our nation), I don't give to hoots what they want to believe.

cool that you dont want to get into a debate, i dont either. one example i will give though, is gay marriage. i reckon the majority of opposition to gay marriage comes from religious beliefs, which in oz means predominantly christian beliefs.