Buggered if I know whats going on at the Adelaide Crows

[DavidSSS]

In the Daisy clip above he makes a very good point - yes the AFL should have done something about this, but where's the AFLPA? Are they just a company union or what?

The AFLPA seem to do sweet FA except negotiate pay deals, there's a lot more to unions than just pay deals, there's making sure the members are not treated like sh!t.

DS

 

[TigerFlag2017]

I have had plenty of laughs about stories of this camp.

But this is a disgrace and is appalling. Really sad to read what Eddie and his teammates went through.

Amazing how AFL can be a billion dollar business yet allows this stuff to go on.

 

[daniel30]

In the Daisy clip above he makes a very good point - yes the AFL should have done something about this, but where's the AFLPA? Are they just a company union or what?

The AFLPA seem to do sweet FA except negotiate pay deals, there's a lot more to unions than just pay deals, there's making sure the members are not treated like sh!t.

DS

Yeah totally agree no doubt they we're aware of this yet didn't act player welfare a they independent from the afl through ?.

 

[tigermike]

What they describe is astounding. How that is supposed to build leadership I don't know. By contrast Richmond let the players tell each other about their lives which gives the players agency in deciding what they are comfortable revealing.

One can only assume the leadership exercises on this camp were just dreamed up and are based on no research or evidence at all, sure as hell sounds like it. I've been to a few bits and pieces at work over the years and they are especially laughable when the exercises are the same as I was taught to do in Primary Teacher training. This sort of stuff is a con.

DS

No wonder Lever wanted to leave when he saw what this group was doing with the power stance BS and other nutty ideas that started mid-2017. Our Tiger boys did well to hide their laughter, with their arms around each other, watching the Crows stand separated and looking like a dis-jointed team of individuals. How could any sane person think that stance would intimidate the opposition? Those "development" exercises at that camp are not only a con they are very dangerous to a person's mental health as Eddie has explained. If WorkSafe SA and the AFL ticked it off with no further action to be taken then we really have a long way to go in understanding how to protect people from mental injury.

 

[Scoop]

This speaks to a broader reality in modern football.

Due to equalisation measures, "talent" is pretty even across the competition. How do you get an edge? Attitude, culture, and leadership are the factors that most differentiate clubs.

In late 2017, Adelaide had the worst culture and Richmond had the best culture. By 2020, Adelaide had already won the wooden spoon while we went on to win 3 premierships. In the span of 4 years, two clubs with similar overall talent levels ended up with polar opposite outcomes.

Never underestimate the influence of attitude, culture, and leadership on a team of living, breathing people who are so much more than just producers of stats that correlate with wins.

It's so easy and natural to let success go to your head and attribute everything to innate talent. Dimma's emphasis on "humble and hungry" in 2020 was a direct attempt at helping our culture resist that temptation. We had the right attitude, culture, and leadership. Adelaide went the other way by treating their people like lab rats in a system that cares only about the numbers they produce. Time will continue to tell which approach is best.

Outstanding summation.

 

[Aegean Tiger]

Ricciuto's comments unsurprising.

 

[RoarEmotion]

I've been on some team building / leadership courses that were very helpful. They involved a lot of internal reflection and then discussion with other and exercises that used games to pull out key essences of teamwork - typically with regards to communication. e.g. You could make half a team blind and have them get through an obstacle course directed by someone else, or solve some kind of time limited challenge.

What got described above just sounds extremely destructive. Richmond's way of being authentic about yourself and what your strengths and weaknesses are - that comes from the individual and therefore builds empathy and trust seems the polar opposite of yelling personal abuse at someone. Imagine all the teammates yelling at Brandon Ellis about his childhood when he disclosed it confidentially to someone. How does that help a team get better? Why would the person share anything again after their trust is destroyed. Just boggles the mind as to how this course got through to being something that could help.

I haven't watched any of those survival shows or been in an army training camp - but do they do the break the person down to build them up kind of thing? Was this their angle? The breaking down in the case would come individually from someone respected or in authority - and not a colleague I imagine. And it would be based on behaviors. I've been given tough feedback along with some path forwards to do things better that has been very helpful. I'm not sure how abuse serves that purpose though..

 

[Batchelor Party]

Future news story:
"As a result of the re-investigation into the Adelaide Crows controversial 2017 training camp, Richmond's Marlion Pickett has been fined $10,000 by the AFL. No other fines or penalties have been issued"

 

[waiting]

Ricciuto's comments unsurprising.

Needs to stand down.
Silvers ( CEO ?) needs too as well after he spoke yesterday. Appalling & pathetic response.

Safe SA people who conducted the enquiry who thought ‘this’ was ok and passed Worksafe is astounding.

The AFL are culpable in this too.

If the AFLPA are fair dinkum when they interview EVERY player DO something about it.

 

[jimbob]

I've been on some team building / leadership courses that were very helpful. They involved a lot of internal reflection and then discussion with other and exercises that used games to pull out key essences of teamwork - typically with regards to communication. e.g. You could make half a team blind and have them get through an obstacle course directed by someone else, or solve some kind of time limited challenge.

What got described above just sounds extremely destructive. Richmond's way of being authentic about yourself and what your strengths and weaknesses are - that comes from the individual and therefore builds empathy and trust seems the polar opposite of yelling personal abuse at someone. Imagine all the teammates yelling at Brandon Ellis about his childhood when he disclosed it confidentially to someone. How does that help a team get better? Why would the person share anything again after their trust is destroyed. Just boggles the mind as to how this course got through to being something that could help.

I haven't watched any of those survival shows or been in an army training camp - but do they do the break the person down to build them up kind of thing? Was this their angle? The breaking down in the case would come individually from someone respected or in authority - and not a colleague I imagine. And it would be based on behaviors. I've been given tough feedback along with some path forwards to do things better that has been very helpful. I'm not sure how abuse serves that purpose though..

Yep. Over the years I have done a number of team building/leadership workshop/days/camps. Some good. Some crap. This, though beggars belief.

To actually individually quiz the players and then use that information against them in front of others is appalling.

The SAS break down/build up the individual is about being in a war situation. Kill or be killed. This is a sport as a much as place a lot of weight on it.

How does any of what has been described make you a better husband/father etc? Don’t tell anyone about what we have done (cos it’s a secret). very Essendon like. And that worked out well.

Eddie Betts goes to the Club and airs concerns. Gets dropped from the leadership group for demonstrating actual leadership? He went to the club and laid out the issues. He didn’t stand there screaming at the staff bellowing about the potential and real damage that has been done. He went about it the right way. And got dropped for his troubles.

Josh Jenkins was also in the leadership group and also aired some concerns. Didn’t stay at Adelaide for long.

The poop hits the fan and news starts to get out. The club, while not admitting anything wrong says that they have terminated the services of the consultants. Players have to process what has happened and half way through the year… they BRING THE MOB BACK FOR A REMEDIAL SESSION!!

Trust broken again.

The reporters breaking the story are forced into a humiliating apology after Adelaide/AFL/Worksafe say “all good”

It is a very sad indictment on the league that this has been handled in this fashion by the AFL. I would seriously trust the people at AFL house as far as I could kick them and these days not as far as I could in my youth. It’s all about protecting the brand and politics.

Pathetic.

 

[Brodders17]

one thing that is noticeable, but probably not uncommon at the time, is that there was seemingly not one woman involved in any of the camp saga. Decisions were made by a bunch of men who think toughness is handling getting yelled in the face, or weakness is showing emotion. these guys might have been ok running footy clubs in the 70s but the world has well and truly moved on.

It is a stark contrast to us with Peggy in charge, and Emma Murray playing such a pivotal role.

 

[St Kevin]

Anyone can read from a script, even a dumb footballer.

This has in fact been as good as confirmed, as Betts said that they were told to use that exact wording re "better husband, son and teammate" to the media. What a disgrace.

 

[TT33]

This has in fact been as good as confirmed, as Betts said that they were told to use that exact wording re "better husband, son and teammate" to the media. What a disgrace.

Interestingly enough, Eddie has said his that wife told him that he'd become the exact opposite of that.

 

[St Kevin]

Interestingly enough, Eddie has said his that wife told him that he'd become the exact opposite of that.

This will be as damaging to Adelaide as the drugs scandal was for Essendon. The club will not begin to properly recover until everyone involved from top to bottom has departed.

 

[Leysy Days]

First time Mince Whateley has stood his ground and focussed in on the AFL (Along with Adelaide and the PA)

His reporting on this has actually been strong/good.

 

[tigersnake]

It is a very sad indictment on the league that this has been handled in this fashion by the AFL. I would seriously trust the people at AFL house as far as I could kick them and these days not as far as I could in my youth. It’s all about protecting the brand and politics.

Apologies if I'm being overly cynical, but I'd bet money the mob that ran this, who seem to be carpetbagger spivs, would have links to AFL execs.

Do the the journos who were forced to apologise un-apologise? I'd like to see that.

 

[tigersnake]

just googled collective minds end looked at their website. There are slick 5 min promo video testimonials from customers, South Sydney NRL, some cruise ship company, and the Crows and more. The Crows one says nothing, 5 minutes of 'they fixed our minds'. Eddie doesn't speak on it but he does feature in slo mo video of training. Amazing on a lot of levels. Gotta be a law suit there surely?

 

[tigermike]

just googled collective minds end looked at their website. There are slick 5 min promo video testimonials from customers, South Sydney NRL, some cruise ship company, and the Crows and more. The Crows one says nothing, 5 minutes of 'they fixed our minds'. Eddie doesn't speak on it but he does feature in slo mo video of training. Amazing on a lot of levels. Gotta be a law suit there surely?

Absolutely. I'll have a look at their website and what I'll be looking for are the qualifications of the people running the business not testimonials. What a nerve to be using anything to do with Adelaide FC let alone vision of Eddie as part of that testimonial!
Adelaide should ask them to take that down. If I was Eddie I'd be making that same request. My question is...Where was their duty of care towards their client? Those who work in allied health as I do have to work ethically to treat people and to make sure we do no harm, either physically or mentally. Seems like they failed to have a plan to assess the likely benefit v. the possible detrimental effects of the exercises? Surely there is a malpractice investigation to come out of this?
P.S. Their website describes the two people in charge in the same way "...experienced Executive coach, trainer and speaker" but no specific qualifications to be seen. The Managing director has worked "on a mental resilience pilot programme for recruit training in the Australian Army". So that explains a lot and good luck to those army recruits!

 

[Tigers of Old]

First time Mince Whateley has stood his ground and focussed in on the AFL (Along with Adelaide and the PA)

His reporting on this has actually been strong/good.

Gil is out the door.

 

[kiwitiger]

No wonder their club fell apart , I mean credit where its due to a point , they actually played some good footy in 17 before it fell apart on GF day ( credit to us of course )

And channeled the right way , they shouldve been able to come back and go again the next year .