Bring on the changes.

[mightytiges]

Rosy you can draft as many players as you want but the list size must not exceed I think next year it will be 44(?) including veterans and rookies. Am prepared to stand corrected on the figure but I think the principle is right.

Total list - Max 44
Senior list - Max 38 (including unlimited vets)
Rookie list - Max 6

Can't remember if the minimum list number was 36 or 38 for next year.

The list must be reduced down to at least 35 before the trade/draft period.
Number of delistings is unlimited.

It's going to take at least 2-3 drafts to rebuild our list to the required level. So I don't see our core group changing much next year either bar one or two players either via trades or retirees (say Bowden, Duncan, Cameron). IMO most of the work this year as the first step should be spent cleaning out our dud fringe players (King, Bidders, Houlihan, Mills, Hyde, Hilton, Pettifer) and introducing talented youth as part of rebuilding our list that will eventually give it depth. We also need to begin using the rookie list to our advantage so in future years we can promote even more talented youngsters to our senior list instead of solely relying on the draft.

Next year won't be much different on the field especially with Danny still coach :-\ .

 

[JohnF]

All these players should be put up as potential trades:

Richo
Holland
Bowden
Hall
Fiora
Vardy
Hilton
Draga
Pettifer
Houlihan

Half that list wouldn't be touched with a ten foot pole but the other half would surely raise some interest.

If we are looking to delist 8 players (plus retire 2) they should be:

Nicholls
King
Houlihan
Biddiscombe
Mills
Hyde
Pettifer
Hilton or Fleming

Cameron
D.Kellaway

 

[Harry]

But that's the whole problem isn't it rosy? Injuries have forced us to play blokes that clearly aren't up to it. The very blokes that we want to delist are the ones that have been pulling on the jumper and not performing each week - or am I missing something? Three or four non-performers each week can very quickly make the other 18 look very ordinary indeed.

As far as core group, I took that to mean, say our top 8 or 10 players - I think most of them can hold their heads high, give or take a couple ;D

So frawely has developed 8-10 good players during his 4 year stint? If thats the case don't you think Frawely has failed in this respect? I think your being a bit too critical on the list.

 

[Rosy]

I don't see how we can keep the coach AND the players he couldn't get to perform for the last 2 seasons.

It hasn't been a good combination and Danny's admitted they don't play the style of play they are told to under him.

I'd think something in the combination needs to change.

And I don't think it's the fault of the Kings and Biddiscomes either. A lot of our top 20 players have looked very ordinary this year.

I don't know if the players are that bad or if Danny can't get his meseage through to them but something obviously hasn't worked.

 

[Dean3]

I don't see why a list rebuild automatically means you have to employ a new coach, or commit to a longer contract with the current one. I take your point — it might be better that way, but it ain't compulsory. You've spent all season criticising Frawley's game plan as too defensive etc etc. Nothing to stop you (or anyone) making that assessment during next year. Take it from me, if we're still taking 6 kicks to get outside our defensive 50 this time next year, and losing by 80 points, I'll be buying a ticket on your bandwagon ;D

 

[tassiedave]

I don't care who goes next year other than our top 10, who are easily identified:

Coghlan/Johnson/Campbell/Ottens/Chaffey/A Kellaway/Newman/Richardson/Gaspar/Stafford.

Get rid of the rest and start again. Find someone that can kick like Ben Graham so the ball gets outside defensive 50 with 1 kick, not 3 or 4, have Cogs or Johnno crumb the bloody ball if it spills, hand it off to Campbo or Chaff who quickly get it up to Otto or Staff standing in the square. Kick, goal...win match.
Aaaaaaaargh, its not that hard.Every other good bloody side can do it.

 

[YeahNah]

Harry arguing to keep the coach, Deano saying we don't have to, we can get rid of him? Have I gone mad? What's going on?
Boy, am I looking forward to the cricket season!

 

[Rosy]

YeahNah what a strange week it's been in here. My brain's scrambled, ha. I really can't follow half of what's being said.
I can't wait for the next 3 games to be over.
Bring on the cricket indeed. Just wish it didn't mean another hot summer as well though.

 

[gustiger12]

The RFC are placed in a hard position ATM. They have come out hard and stated that the list is no good and that big changes are going to be made. In alot of peoples minds they are committing to a period of rebuilding - because you just can't go through band aid recruiting forever when the team is not performing.

Now this is where it gets tricky. If they have committed to rebuilding then surely they must commit to the coach for at least 3-4 years. Do they commit to Frawely for 4 more years? Or do they committ to someone else? As much as I think Frawely cannot coach, it will be unfair on him for RFC to back him now and then knife him when the new, young players don't deliver next year. Don't expect a finals birth next year if we are rebuilding.

However if they committ to him for another 4 years, we will, as Laff says, have the worst performed 8 year coach in history.

Absolutely spot on Harry. Maybe this is why MILLER is having so much input.

 

[Harry]

The club has said that approx. 10 players face delisting/trading.........the list is 3-4 short as is........this means that there will be 14 new faces next year.........not possible.

 

[gustiger12]

Yeah nah Harry that not in the game plan.
5 out 5 in that makes 10 i would have thought.

 

[Ruthless Tigers ?]

However if they committ to him for another 4 years, we will, as Laff says, have the worst performed 8 year coach in history.

Hmmmm 30% of 176....thats about 52 wins out of 176 games....

I wonder what impact there would be if membership dropped by just 5% because of the failures? I wonder what the effect would be if sponsorship dropped 10% over 4 yrs because of failure?

I wonder who will be turned to for SOS Mark 2?

Will these idiots ever learn. FRAWLEY is a DUD! SHove him and his dud mates and save our club NOW!

 

[Ruthless Tigers ?]

Reading further throught he comments in this thread its plain to see that people are disgruntled. We have been led to believe that the list is sound. We have been told we have the talent.....but we are breaking up. Its obvious the players are not performing because the coach is indecisive. QUite frankly on what I have seen in the AFL and at clinics run by DUD, this man couldn't even handle the coaches white board. He has had four yrs to rebuild...and failed. He has had four yrs to draft new players...and failed. He has had four years to find success... and failed. He has had four years to prove to us he can coach...and failed. WHy would anyone want to keep a loser when there is such quality around and if the price is right I am sure an old tiger would be waiting and watching.

This is the SUPPORTERS.....its time to go....Danny!

 

[diggler]

You will only see a new coach if the current board is overthrown.
I agree, Spud is a dud, but he will not be sacked by Casey or Miller.
How stupid would those two look if they did an about face on their current support for Frawley?

 

[Harry]

When is the next president election?

 

[julzqld]

Love the avartar Diggler.

 

[Roar34]

Go, Caro!!!!

 

[sgloury]

The disappointment of the past two years has highlighted that our list needs rebuilding. The improvement that Fremantle and St Kilda
have shown from two years ago has highlighted just how fast a side can be turned around from being aging ordinary teams into the two most promising sides in the AFL.

I think that the time has come for Richmond to make some tough decisions in respect of the playing list and adopt a rebuilding policy with a view to being a force again in four to five years time. We need to be open to trading some loyal and much loved Tigers (eg Richo, Cambo, Gaspar etc) if the right deal came along which would see the Tigers getting their hands on some of the best young talent going around. Talent that gives us a chance of being a force in the AFL again in five years.

Obviously there is plenty of dead wood on the list and you can only hope that players in this category will be delisted at the end of the season and replaced with younger players who show ability and have a go.

The club I believe has no option but to try and rebuild the list with quality young players who will hopefully deliver better results than the current player group has done.

This could mean a very lean couple of years a la early 90's but what option do we have? Most players that we have on the current list aren't taking us anywhere fast and of the quality players that we do have, many are aging and won't be around to be part of a potential premiership team in 5 years time.

Apart from the following players (Coughlan, Johnson, Ottens, Newman, Rodan, Krakouer and Schulz) I would be open to trading any other player on the list providing the deal was right and we were able to secure some quality young players.

The obvious concern that I have with rebuilding has been the lack of quality young players that we have been able to draft and develop over the past 15 years. Given Richmonds poor performances over the past 15 years, we consistently have had high draft picks but this has not converted into any period of sustained success. Hence I am worried with our recent track record, that we may still not be able to identify and pick up the best available young players even if we do decide to rebuild and go for youth. I can only hope that Greg Miller can rectify any aspects in the recruitment area of our club that he believes is not up to scratch.

One aspect that throws a spanner in the works of a rebuilding plan is the year left to run on Danny Frawleys contract. If it was not for the fact that Frawley has another year to go on his contract (and the club is not flush with funds) I doubt that Danny would be appointed as coach for next year. Again this highlights the danger of long term contracts. A plan to go for youth and rebuild the list would mean that a bottom four finish next year is highly likely again. This might be in the long term interest of the Club (eg rebuilding) but it will not help Frawley get another coaching contract at the end of next year and that to a large degree leaves the club in limbo.

 

[Roar34]

Go YT! and if you read some of the other topics you will see there are many in agreement with what you say.

 

[tigerman]

If Greg Miller is on a performance based contract something like Spud is, don't expect too many young kids to be drafted.