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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Atheism
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
antman said:So are you conceding that the Christian Apologetics is rubbish, and that either you believe the Word of the Bible or you don't?
By no means. Christian Apologetics gives us a factual foundation for a reasonable faith. However, if you are asking me whether I think Christian Apologetics is biased, yes I do! But I think if you read work in the area of the New Testament or Old Testament, it's ALL biased. At some point along the line you need to come to a decision about which bias you believe is correct
.See the skeptics come to the table with the attitude 'What does this evidence prove?', and can find numerous reasons/excuses for saying 'nothing'. The Christian comes with the POV 'is it reasonable for me to believe in the Biblical Jesus?' And I would say, on the evidence, yes it is!
Let me get this straight. You (any believer...Djevv, Jay etc.) have a 'feeling' that there is a God. I don't mean to undervalue that 'feeling'...but the basis of your belief was some 'I see the light' moment, which is reinforced by continued reaffirmations (ie. good things are rewards from your benevolent god and bad things are 'tests' or 'god works in mysterious ways' situations? Thus, when you look at the physical evidence around you, you interpret in light of this 'personal knowledge' that is unchanging (short of God himself stating that he doesn't exist - hat tip to evo). Therein lies the methodological problem...the basis of everything is a subjective (albeit powerful) feeling that a God exists and you try to conform the physical evidence to this subjective belief. You have a vested interest in proving the existence of your God.
Where is the atheist's vested interest?
I don't think I have ever met a 'committed atheist'. Anyone who has come to such a position has usually done so through analysis of the available evidence, in the absence of the 'hallelujah moment' and has found the evidence sorely lacking. Every atheist I know would happily become a theist if the evidence pointed in that direction.
Can you see the distinction in the two approaches?
Why would anyone want to be atheist as a dogmatic stance?
There are really two different issues that are intertwined on this and the Christianity thread. One is on the existence of a God of any 'flavour'. An all powerful creator. I don't think this can be decided on one way or the other absolutely...it will always come down to faith. I personally don't see a reason for faith, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.
However, much of the discussion on these threads have revolved around Christianity and much of what fundamentalist Christianity and literal interpretations of the Bible lead to. Many of those claims are patently false and have been covered on these threads to a large extent (eg. evolution, Noah's flood, Revelations, miracles etc.). It is these areas where I am happy to point out the flaws in the 'fundy beliefs' and where the extreme methodological errors in the analysis of the data are committed (wherein the conclusion is known before the data is even glanced over).
- hat tip to evo). Therein lies the methodological problem...the basis of everything is a subjective (albeit powerful) feeling that a God exists and you try to conform the physical evidence to this subjective belief. You have a vested interest in proving the existence of your God. Where is the atheist's vested interest?
I don't think I have ever met a 'committed atheist'. Anyone who has come to such a position has usually done so through analysis of the available evidence, in the absence of the 'hallelujah moment' and has found the evidence sorely lacking. Every atheist I know would happily become a theist if the evidence pointed in that direction.
Can you see the distinction in the two approaches?
Why would anyone want to be atheist as a dogmatic stance?
There are really two different issues that are intertwined on this and the Christianity thread. One is on the existence of a God of any 'flavour'. An all powerful creator. I don't think this can be decided on one way or the other absolutely...it will always come down to faith. I personally don't see a reason for faith, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.
However, much of the discussion on these threads have revolved around Christianity and much of what fundamentalist Christianity and literal interpretations of the Bible lead to. Many of those claims are patently false and have been covered on these threads to a large extent (eg. evolution, Noah's flood, Revelations, miracles etc.). It is these areas where I am happy to point out the flaws in the 'fundy beliefs' and where the extreme methodological errors in the analysis of the data are committed (wherein the conclusion is known before the data is even glanced over).
Alright, I now know one committed atheist.
You are now classified as 'one of them' 6er....you are now a member of the dogma crew. ;D
You are now classified as 'one of them' 6er....you are now a member of the dogma crew. ;D
Disco08 said:
Ok, so do you think you are entitled to allow or disallow anyone you choose to enter your home or not?
Disco08 said:
Disco, this is the crux of your unbelief - How can a loving God exclude some people from his house for all eternity. you cannot accept that God can do what we as mere mortals choose to do on a daily basis. God loves you Disco without reservation and you do not have to do anything to earn God's love it is freely given. No greater love has any man than to lay down his life for his friends, this is what Jesus did he laid down his life that we might live with him for all eternity. Jesus was either a Liar, Lunatic or Lord, I know him as Lord, he is my friend and he has never let me down in 22 years. I dont have all the answers that you seek and I understand why you may ridicule something that I cannot prove. But I do know what has happened inside my heart and like Paul on the road to damascus, I testify about this Jesus who I used to persucute and ridicule that he is alive and he lives today. Am I a Lunatic? no. Am I a Liar? no. is Jesus my Lord, yes and until my dying breath I will testify that God is faithful. I have failed many times, but God has never failed me.
That's a lovely speech tigertime, and I'm glad you have God to comfort you.
Tell me, do you think people who feel the same way about other Gods are liars or lunatics?
And no, that is not the crux of my unbelief. My skepticism stems from the fact that my brain sees no logic in Christianity's fundamentals at all.
Tell me, do you think people who feel the same way about other Gods are liars or lunatics?
And no, that is not the crux of my unbelief. My skepticism stems from the fact that my brain sees no logic in Christianity's fundamentals at all.
Panthera tigris FC said:Let me get this straight. You (any believer...Djevv, Jay etc.) have a 'feeling' that there is a God. I don't mean to undervalue that 'feeling'...but the basis of your belief was some 'I see the light' moment, which is reinforced by continued reaffirmations (ie. good things are rewards from your benevolent god and bad things are 'tests' or 'god works in mysterious ways' situations? Thus, when you look at the physical evidence around you, you interpret in light of this 'personal knowledge' that is unchanging (short of God himself stating that he doesn't exist
Where is the atheist's vested interest?
I don't think I have ever met a 'committed atheist'. Anyone who has come to such a position has usually done so through analysis of the available evidence, in the absence of the 'hallelujah moment' and has found the evidence sorely lacking. Every atheist I know would happily become a theist if the evidence pointed in that direction.
Can you see the distinction in the two approaches?
Why would anyone want to be atheist as a dogmatic stance?
There are really two different issues that are intertwined on this and the Christianity thread. One is on the existence of a God of any 'flavour'. An all powerful creator. I don't think this can be decided on one way or the other absolutely...it will always come down to faith. I personally don't see a reason for faith, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.
However, much of the discussion on these threads have revolved around Christianity and much of what fundamentalist Christianity and literal interpretations of the Bible lead to. Many of those claims are patently false and have been covered on these threads to a large extent (eg. evolution, Noah's flood, Revelations, miracles etc.). It is these areas where I am happy to point out the flaws in the 'fundy beliefs' and where the extreme methodological errors in the analysis of the data are committed (wherein the conclusion is known before the data is even glanced over).
I see, (wherein the conclusion is known before the data is even glanced over). so if it is that easy, then how do you plan to overcome Death?
Disco08 said:
When you love your own child (I am assuming you have a child) do you love him with your Head or your Heart?
tigertime2 said:
The first quote I read:
"It isn't a matter of validating or invalidating arguments. It's about being able to see those same arguments from a different perspective. . . What I discovered was an intellectual riddle that couldn't be solved by the logical mind. It had to be solved by the intuitive heart." ~ A.S.A. Jones in The Unexpected Journey by Thom S. Rainer.
Sums up exactly what I just said. She decided to believe unconditionally despite whether logic could explain the arguments or not.
tigertime2 said:
I don't. I would prefer to live my life to the fullest, with friends and family, while I have one.
Why would you think I was planning to overcome death?
Do your beliefs mean you are going to overcome death? Maybe, but probably not IMO.
If I believe I can fly, unconditionally, and step off a building, will I fly?
