-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Atheism
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
jayfox said:
If these drunken orgies only involve consenting adults, then who is harmed by the action? Where is the crime?
The issue of crimes of vice never made much sense to me.
Panthera tigris FC said:
Where is the harm? These types of orgies would sometimes be mixed with a fair amount of alcohol and drugs and, almost always, a fair level of carelessness I would imagine. So where is the harm? What about the far greater potential for unwanted pregnancies, transmission of STD's, relationship breakup's due to jealousy of a partner enjoying sex with another (and potential violence that may go with it), psychological damage etc.?
I reckon that there are plenty of good reasons not to lower ourselves to these levels. Common human decency is just one. There is a reason that we are more intelligent creatures than the other animals and we should act that way.
jayfox said:
Well said Foxy! It seems likely that people who think this behaviour 'harmless' aren't there to pick up the pieces, fix the damaged bodies and counsel the distressed afterward.
jayfox said:
Alcohol and drugs on their own are only harming the individual and their abuse should be discouraged for this reason....but prohibition is costly, ineffective, promotes a black market in their trade, gives them a 'rebellious' image and leaves people reliant on them on the fringes of society. This also ignores the responsible, occasional use of these drugs (ie a glass of wine with dinner etc.) which, as long as someone is not harming others, should be allowed.
As for the carelessness...a more effective method IMO would be education and harm minimisation efforts. People have always and will continue to use these substances...we need to accept this and come up with ways to reduce the negative effects of such use on society as a whole.
Common human decency is a purely subjective idea. As I have said, I may not want to partake in these orgies, but as long those that do aren't harming anyone else (including their partners) I don't see how this affects me, or society in the slightest. What you don't seem to be able to accept is that everyone has different likes/dislikes and as long as they are harmless, what is the problem in indulging these likes....even if you don't share them?
Panthera tigris FC said:
Firstly, if you think that alcohol and drugs are only harming the individual then you have never spent time with the families of those who have battled addiction and the devastating affect it can have on people close to the sufferer.
Secondly, I reckon that I listed a fair amount of harm that can be brought about from orgies and the like. The risks of these 'side-effects' are quite high and you can not guarantee that people won't be badly hurt by these actions. The evidence in our society of people dealing with problems arising from such behaviour is evident for all to see.
jayfox said:
On alcohol and drugs, when we handed the reins over to the wowser movement and installed prohibition, that worked really well, and actually helped propel the mafia from an blimp on the radar to a major full scale operation still firing away today.
With regards to the rest, Christians in the name of Jesus have tortured people, killed people, attempted to eliminate most of South America and the Jewish race, and sent the war into more wars than any other religion (most being amongst themselves over disputes about how best to love Jesus). If its a choice between a messy divorce and god not being happy, or my head on a pike buy god happy I am now pure, find me a divorce lawyer.
Tiger74 said:
And none of that is acceptable in the eyes of God. The people who commit these atrocities will be judged on their actions by God and regardless of whether they are fooling others, or even themselves, into thinking they are Christians, if their lives testify otherwise then they will be going to Hell. Faith without works is dead remember. To be truly saved you must also want to behave like a Christian should as well. People regularly have a go at Christianity for the evil acts done in it's name instead of looking at the example of the founder of the faith, Jesus Christ. If acts by so-called Christians are contrary to His teachings then it is clear that these acts are not from, nor supported by, God.
jayfox said:
However if those teachings are vague or subject to interpretation one might understand how certain atrocious acts could occur in the name of Christianity.
jayfox said:
Or we could look at his forefathers, in Moses and the tribes.
As I understand it when they came to create their Jewish homeland there were people already there. Now God gave them the land, so just out of curiousity, what was God's plan for the original inhabitants? Did they have the option of co-habiting the area, or moving on elsewhere, because I am assuming God would not want them brutally killed and massacred just because they have the wrong postcode.
jayfox said:
Are we talking about Jesus or the Bible? Is one more correct than the other?
Off the top of my head Jesus' view on slavery could be construed as vague as we have discussed previously on this thread.
The Bible as a whole is full of vague passages open to interpretation and blatant contradiction. As Sam Harris points out....state one passage in the Bible....a book supposedly the word of God himself.....that couldn't have been written 2000 years ago? For a book of supposed divine origin, it does have passages that are useful (if not original) moral lessons, but overall it is a pretty ordinary book to live by.
