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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Atheism
- Thread starter Disco08
- Start date
evo said:God is dead.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=paUniverse_sun14_parallel_universes&show_article=1&cat=0
Great theory for the next Harry Potter film. And people call Christians delusional :rofl
So there's another version of me out there in the universe, who played 300 games for the tiges and is a football legend.
jayfox said:
You're assuming they'd have all tried to run the world the way the USA has. That's not a given at all apart from Germany (most likely).
jayfox said:
Christians working in scientific fields do not prove that the two can go hand in hand. For that to happen science would have to agree with all the assertions made in the Bible, which in most scientists opinion it does not.
Disco08 said:
You are right to point out that the two going hand in hand doesn't have any bearing on the role of Christian beliefs in scientific endeavours. However, it goes deeper than your second sentence. Science by its very nature relies on empirical, verifiable evidence. Religion, by it very nature relies on faith, that is belief in the absence of evidence. They are diametrically opposed. So no 'scientist', by definition, can believe in that for which there is no evidence. Scientists who do so are just able to 'take off their scientist hat', so to speak.
Heavy *smile*.evo said:God is dead.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=paUniverse_sun14_parallel_universes&show_article=1&cat=0
Doesn't sit right with me, though. How much happens by necessity and doesn't lead to a 'split' according to this theory? Do some of the splits lead to the same results given that some things will happen '9 out of 10 times'?
Theory is quite unscientific and unfalsifiable.
Panthera tigris FC said:
Scientists operate in a material universe that is governed by laws of nature which allow science to work. In fact positing scientific laws and expecting them to always function is in fact an act of faith in a creator/lawgiver/upholder.
BTW there is plenty of evidence, that is ignored by non-christians, from the NT especially.
More questions for the for the atheists -
How do we explain the many supernatural experiences that people have, such as encounters with God, ghosts, spirits, etc (these are are all interpreted by different people in different ways but people encounter things that do not fit a naturalistic world view). Are all of these people delusional or mad? Or are people having real encounters with the supernatural not explainable by science?
Where does the complex information come from that is within DNA? Information doesn’t just appear by itself.
Why does humanity have the need to worship something, or someone? Why is there such a universal religious sense within humanity?
Isn’t it extreme to state that "God does not exist"? To make such a statement you would have to have full knowledge and to have been everywhere in the universe.
What about the evidence of design in all of creation? It is obvious that anything that is designed has to have an intelligent creator. A computer never came about by accident, but had to have been planned by an intelligent designer. It is the same with creation, and more so, as the natural world is far more complicated than anything humanity can create.
Where does all the matter in the universe come from?
How do you explain the changed lives of millions of people throughout history who testify to a life changing experience with Jesus Christ?
How do we account for the historic significance of Jesus Christ? He has made such an impact upon history that we even measure our calendar by him and 2000 years on millions still follow him.
How do we explain the many supernatural experiences that people have, such as encounters with God, ghosts, spirits, etc (these are are all interpreted by different people in different ways but people encounter things that do not fit a naturalistic world view). Are all of these people delusional or mad? Or are people having real encounters with the supernatural not explainable by science?
Where does the complex information come from that is within DNA? Information doesn’t just appear by itself.
Why does humanity have the need to worship something, or someone? Why is there such a universal religious sense within humanity?
Isn’t it extreme to state that "God does not exist"? To make such a statement you would have to have full knowledge and to have been everywhere in the universe.
What about the evidence of design in all of creation? It is obvious that anything that is designed has to have an intelligent creator. A computer never came about by accident, but had to have been planned by an intelligent designer. It is the same with creation, and more so, as the natural world is far more complicated than anything humanity can create.
Where does all the matter in the universe come from?
How do you explain the changed lives of millions of people throughout history who testify to a life changing experience with Jesus Christ?
How do we account for the historic significance of Jesus Christ? He has made such an impact upon history that we even measure our calendar by him and 2000 years on millions still follow him.
Harry said:
The subjective experience of individuals is an area that is the subject of investigation in neuroscience. The supernatural experience, or spiritual experiences that we as humans have can certainly fit into a naturalistic world view. The belief that these experiences are supernatural does not, however the understanding that our experience is the product of nervous system and how it processes information is open to scientific investigation. This is also relevant to the point you make about the ubiquitous nature of religion. Isn't it interesting that religion itself is essentially ubiquitous, but the beliefs themselves are completely different or contradictory? That would suggest that our nervous systems have the capacity and predilection for belief, but that belief will be culture-specific.
The information itself is not that complex, essentially a code of four different chemicals, adenine, thymine, guanine and cytosine. The function is far more complex and is the product of up to 4 billion years of evolution. Information can certainly increase within genomes, by a variety of mechanisms. I can post some links to great descriptions if you desire.
See above.
I don't say that 'god doesn't exist', I say that the existence of god is on par with the existence of the tooth fairy, leprechauns and the Zeus. If you disagree, tell me how you know that the tooth fairy doesn't exist, your argument for God's existence would support the existence of the tooth fairy just as much.
Such a notion betrays a lack of knowledge of biology and evolution. This argument is an old one and it is easily explained by the forces of evolution. The reason I know a computer has an intelligent designer is that there is evidence of its design, in the schematics, the computer engineers and the factories that pump them out. Your argument is more one of personal incredulity and offers no real counter to the scientific arguments put forth by biologists.
Current theories would say the Big Bang and subsequent fusion reactions in the stars generated by this event. The difference between this stance and your own, is that the Big Bang theory is supported by evidence. Yours is a 'god of the gaps' argument.
You could argue the same for [insert name of a historical god]. It says more about how the human mind works than an argument for the divinity of Jesus Christ.
Yes, Jesus does play a large role in our society and historically has done so. That wasn't how Christianity began though and all this tells us is that is has been important in the society we grew up in and live in. Just like other societies' gods are significant in those societies. How does this support his divinity?
'Supernatural experience' is just a term people use for a phenomina they can't explain(and a poor term at that).It's doesn't mean the supernatural exists or that the phenomina was outside of nature.How can something be outside of nature? 'Nature' is everythingHarry said:
Delusional,yes.No not mad.
If we subject everything to reason, our religion will have nothing mysterious or supernatural in it. If we violate the principles of reason, our religion will be absurd and ridiculous." ”
— Blaise Pascal
Unexplainable by science (yes sometimes)-Supernatural,no
Argument from incredulity
Why indeed.
Because most people don't want to think for themselves.
It's about as extreme as saying unicorns don't exist or the'res a flying teapot orbiting the earth.Believe it if you like.Personally I'm sceptical.
There isn't any.
Obvious to people who begin with a false premise.
True
No,false premises lead to false conclusions.
I don't know.How come you reckon you do?Rather arrogant-didn't you just say we'd have to know everything to make such conclusions?
Self delusion.
Big deal.Praise Horus.
Harry said:
When the first 'intelligent' people came about, they saw the sun. It gave warmth, light (and respite from the scary darkness and predators), made the crops grow etc. They didn't have science to tell them what it was so naturally they started to worship it. That's why almost every early religion (including christianity) has as part of it's lore this basic astrological sequence;
The sun (or son) is born on December 25th. This is because in the northern hemisphere the days get shorter and shorter until December 22nd, at which time the sun rises and sets in the same spot for 3 days (the shortest days of the year) until on December 25th it moves perceivably into it's movement towards longer days and warmer weather. Hence the sun (or son) is born.
The sun is born of a virgin. This is because the earliest civilizations were as intrigued by the stars as they were by the sun. One of the earliest known man made images is that of the 12 constellations interwoven with the movement of the sun, the moon etc. In the northern hemisphere the sun rises on December 25th out of the Virgo constellation. Virgo is obviously the virgin.
3 Kings follow the the star in the east to the sun's birthplace. The brightest star in the northern hemisphere is Sirius. On December 25th the constellation which has been named the 3 kings since ancient times makes a direct line between Sirius and the point where the sun rises out of the constellation Virgo.
The sun is killed only to be resurrected 3 days later. Obviously because of the sun sequence from December 22 to 25.
The 'god' has 12 disciples which are quite obviously the 12 constellations of the zodiac.
Considering the early people's willingness to worship the sun (who can blame them?) it was always going to happen that man's lust for power and some individual's innate greed would lead to this tendency to be exploited, and what better why than to istill in their new religion's lore a tale that had been accepted for centuries?
Also, who wouldn't want to believe that death is only a segway to eternal life in heaven, or that when you die you'll be gifted 72 virgins, etc?
And once the population was entranced by these things, it evolved into mankind itself, or portions of it at least. One of the most common traits of the human species is to trust those who you look up to. If your parents tell you that god is real, you're likely to believe them.
Harry said:
Most atheists say that god, in the sense that he created the universe and has a personal relationship with every person on earth doesn't exist. On the possibility of some type of god existing many are neutral.
Pantera and evo seem to have the rest covered.
How do you know in your materialist worldview that these laws are applicable everywhere? I do, by faith in a supernatural Creator who is everywhere present!Panthera tigris FC said:
Why must these laws be in place, why can't they change, or randomly fluctuate? I believe it is because God is eternal and upholds the universe by the word of his power as the Bible states.
I believe these are two quite reasonable inferences from the observable facts. What do you infer in your materialist worldview from these facts?
