Assange !!

[Sintiger]

No, it’s fact.

So Manning is jailed, but the platform she used, the publisher, she used, the editor she used, the man who groomed her and worked closely with her. Is innocent. He’s a whistleblower. Freedom of the press.
How many of the released Wikileaks had information regarding Australia in them? How many Australian personnel were named?

How do you know he hasn’t? How do you know what other information he has?
Governments the world over have made compromises. Look at this for instance. Pleads guilty to one charge of espionage and released

—————————————————

Julian P. Assange, 52, the founder of WikiLeaks, pleaded guilty today to conspiring with Chelsea Manning, at that time a U.S. Army intelligence analyst, to unlawfully obtain and disclose classified documents relating to the national defense. After obtaining classified national defense information from Manning, and aware of the harm that dissemination of such national defense information would cause, Assange disclosed this information on WikiLeaks.

The guilty plea concludes a criminal matter that dates back to March 2018, when Assange was first indicted in the Eastern District of Virginia. There, and in superseding indictments, Assange was charged with conspiring with Manning, then a “Top Secret” U.S. security clearance holder, to further Manning’s unlawful acquisition and transmission of bulk classified information, including Manning’s use of a government computer to illegally download hundreds of thousands of classified documents and transmit them without authorization to WikiLeaks.

WikiLeaks Founder Pleads Guilty and Is Sentenced for Conspiring to Obtain and Disclose Classified National Defense Information

Julian P. Assange, 52, the founder of WikiLeaks, pleaded guilty today to conspiring with Chelsea Manning, at that time a U.S. Army intelligence analyst, to unlawfully obtain and disclose classified documents relating to the national defense. After obtaining classified national defense...

www.justice.gov

Once again you have completely missed the point, not for the first time.

The principle is this

I asked the question earlier about how you and others would feel if Assange had received information from Iran, published it on Wikileaks therefore placing Iranian operatives at risk and publishing Iranian state secrets.

Unless you would support the right of Iran to bring him to Tehran for trial and you would believe that Australia should stand by and let that happen then the argument against supporting Assange's freedom relating to the US charges has no credence. The only difference between my example and what happened is that the US was doing it not Iran. So by supporting the US rights and not supporting the Iranian rights you are making a choice and a statement. i.e. The USA is good and Iran is bad.

That is a very bad reason and has massive pitfalls and precedent for the future of any whistle blower or even any Australian investigative journalist working internationally. It is not about the individual called Julian Assange, it is about a very important principle related to being an Australian . Julian Assange is an Australian whether we like him, agree with him or otherwise.

I won't get into further fruitless line by line discussions with you on this because that principle imo is unequivocal. Keep going on about how bad he is but the more you do the more you miss the point.

It should be noted he plead guilty because that was the deal, the only way to be free was to be found guilty and get credit for time served. That still concerns me.

 

[K3]

One thing he got very wrong. Wokes don't believe in Jesus Christ ....

Once again so many have missed the point. Julian Assange is undoubtedly flawed but the issue has always been about what his incarceration meant as a principle.

What would be said about him if someone leaked files from Iran and they were published on Wikileaks and Iran charged an Australian citizen under their espionage act ?

You just need to look at when Wikileaks did the DNC data dump that showed what a pack of caniving so-and-so's they were, and how there was a direct effort to get Hilary Clinton as nominee instead of Sanders.

Trump et.al. were in lurve with Assange and Wikileaks for 'shining a light on the corrupt...'

The dishonesty and hypocrisy (and comments of people who clearly have no idea) around what Wikileaks has done is astounding.

 

[TigerMasochist]

One thing he got very wrong. Wokes don't believe in Jesus Christ ....

Once again so many have missed the point. Julian Assange is undoubtedly flawed but the issue has always been about what his incarceration meant as a principle.

What would be said about him if someone leaked files from Iran and they were published on Wikileaks and Iran charged an Australian citizen under their espionage act ?

Old mufti Ayatollah would just use phone a friend n someone would find himself quietly decrapitated. No fuss, no meedjia hysteria, no asylum or govt interference. Quick clean n effective and old jelly back Elbowskneesy wouldn't say a word or exert any influence as he needs all them votes to stay in power.

 

[Sintiger]

Old mufti Ayatollah would just use phone a friend n someone would find himself quietly decrapitated. No fuss, no meedjia hysteria, no asylum or govt interference. Quick clean n effective and old jelly back Elbowskneesy wouldn't say a word or exert any influence as he needs all them votes to stay in power.

You think the US hasn’t done that before ? I am not equivalising the US and Iran but the Americans have carried out the odd “disappearance” over the years.

 

[TigerMasochist]

All of those people were either charged or would have been charged with espionage against the country of their citizenship. Chelsea Manning was and was jailed for 3 years or so

Wasn't she sentenced to about 30 or 35 years n then old mate Barry O gave her the get out of jail free card just before he finished up being the Prez>

 

[TigerMasochist]

You think the US hasn’t done that before ? I am not equivalising the US and Iran but the Americans have carried out the odd “disappearance” over the years.

And the Chinese, Russkies, Iranians, Nth Koreans, Saudis, Israelis and pretty much any other gov't you'd care to mention ever since they were first invented. Them's just the sneaky little tit for tat power n manipulation games that they all play. But some around here are lionising n diefying Assange n Wiki for dobbing in, betraying n putting at risk our side of the dodgy operators that every country has to have.

 

[Tigaman]

One thing he got very wrong. Wokes don't believe in Jesus Christ ....

Once again so many have missed the point. Julian Assange is undoubtedly flawed but the issue has always been about what his incarceration meant as a principle.

What would be said about him if someone leaked files from Iran and they were published on Wikileaks and Iran charged an Australian citizen under their espionage act ?

He incarcerated himself.

 

[Tigaman]

Once Twump gets in Julian off to US of A for retrial .Guilty verdict overturned as Guilty plea made under duress due to being incarcerated by the British.

 

[Willo]

Once again you have completely missed the point, not for the first time.

No I read that. It was a hypothetical question and I didn’t bother.

The principle is this

I asked the question earlier about how you and others would feel if Assange had received information from Iran, published it on Wikileaks therefore placing Iranian operatives at risk and publishing Iranian state secrets.

But I will now.
Completely different set of circumstances.
Iran isn’t our most important ally.
Iran has a history of subversion, terror, despotism, murder and everything else you could name. Support terrorists like Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi’s and probably more.
Whatever Assange published, wouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. Most of their actions are already known.
They are not a democratic state. They murder and torture their own citizens.

Unless you would support the right of Iran to bring him to Tehran for trial and you would believe that Australia should stand by and let that happen then the argument against supporting Assange's freedom relating to the US charges has no credence. The only difference between my example and what happened is that the US was doing it not Iran. So by supporting the US rights and not supporting the Iranian rights you are making a choice and a statement. i.e. The USA is good and Iran is bad.

What an absolute load of complete dribble.
To even compare the US to Iran demonstrates your utter nonsensical argument. Well it’s not even an argument.
As a learned man was coined a term “none sense on stilts” . Just complete and utter ridiculousness in the extrem.

I’m surprised anyone would even attempt to use that as an argument. Next you’ll be comparing North Korea and Japan.

That is a very bad reason and has massive pitfalls and precedent for the future of any whistle blower or even any Australian investigative journalist working internationally

Absolute rot. Compare like with like.

. It is not about the individual called Julian Assange, it is about a very important principle related to being an Australian . Julian Assange is an Australian whether we like him, agree with him or otherwise.

And if he’s a criminal, he pays the penalty.
Like drug dealers in Asian countries. You know the penalty, don’t bleat about it when you’re caught.
Australian or not. Respect other countries laws.
As an Australian, were you happy he hid out in the Ecuador Embassy rather than go to Sweden to stand trial for sex crimes? Then wait it out until the statute of limitations expires?
If he wanted to be a “whistleblower” why wouldn’t he redact peoples names and not put them at risk?

I won't get into further fruitless line by line discussions with you on this because that principle imo is unequivocal. Keep going on about how bad he is but the more you do the more you miss the point.

Yeah the usual cop out.

It should be noted he plead guilty because that was the deal, the only way to be free was to be found guilty and get credit for time served. That still concerns me.

Yeah, a man of no principles.
Sex crimes..won’t stand trail in Sweden to clear his name. hides out in the Ecuador embassy for years until the statute of limitations for sex offences expires. Except the alleged rape case.
Claims he won’t to go to Sweden in case the US extradites him and wants to murder him. Well if you
How could they extradite him if he’s done nothing wrong?

Then gets the arse from the Ecuador embassy for making an arse of himself in there.
Arrested by the Met police for breaching bail conditions. And jailed. Just like anyone else who breaks the law.
Now he plea bargain, pleads guilty to one charge and is set free.
If he isn’t guilty of anything why plead guilty?
If he is a man of principles why plead guilt?
If he was proud of being a whistleblower why plead guilty?
If he was an advocate of free speech why admit wrongdoing and plead guilty?

No man of principles. He’s just sucked the wokies and lwnj’s in . Which was always predictable.

 

[Baloo]

Honestly Baloo Assange was the Prince of Hackers before he started Wikileaks. He was in the Dark Web up to his eyeballs in it. Now instead of using his obvious erudite talent to assist his Government & Allies he choose a path to assist His Government enemies. To smart for his own good. For all the wokes no doubt you are one he is a Jesus Christ who is going to lead us out of our misery & lead us into a Communistic or Islamic lifestyle. I all so assume you endorse the other side does not commit atrocities & are squeaky clean. Baloo have you served in the Australian Defence Force ?.

Honestly I can't be bothered reading your tripe because you keep making up facts as you go and then when called out you can't man up and admit you made the *smile* up.

 

[Willo]

Wasn't she sentenced to about 30 or 35 years n then old mate Barry O gave her the get out of jail free card just before he finished up being the Prez>

Yeah, she admitted and plead guilty to 10 of the original 22 charges, but was found guilty of 17. Originally sentenced to over 35 years jail.

But but but she was only a “whistleblower” even though she was a US Army Intelligence Analyst.
She handed approx 750,000 classified to Assange who published them on Wikileaks.
Obama commuted her sentence. She only served 7 years or so. She should have been shot.

 

[Baloo]

He’s just sucked the wokies and lwnj’s in

Yet the submission to the US for Assange's release was a cross-party submission with the likes of Barnaby Joyce pushing for his release. Dutton hasn't said anything about Assange from what I can see, which is very unlike him if this was purely a woke/lwnj con job.

 

[Willo]

Yet the submission to the US for Assange's release was a cross-party submission with the likes of Barnaby Joyce pushing for his release. Dutton hasn't said anything about Assange from what I can see, which is very unlike him if this was purely a woke/lwnj con job

Well you could debate whether it’s a “cross party submission” or a letter signed by different Federal politicians. (including greens,labour, nationals, liberals.)
Half probably wouldn’t know what they signed or who he was

Which doesn’t change the point I made. He’s no man of principles.

 

[Baloo]

Well you could debate whether it’s a “cross party submission” or a letter signed by different Federal politicians. (including greens,labour, nationals, liberals.)
Half probably wouldn’t know what they signed or who he was

It wasn't just a signed letter. The cross party group flew to the US and lobbied the government there face to face. But hey, play it down if it doesn't suit your narrative.

Which doesn’t change the point I made. He’s no man of principles.

I assume you mean Assange? He had principles. You may not understand his and he probably wouldn't understand yours. But ultimately he believed in his principles so deeply that he knew he was putting his life at risk by following his principles.

 

[Willo]

It wasn't just a signed letter. The cross party group flew to the US and lobbied the government there face to face. But hey, play it down if it doesn't suit your narrative.

This week, a delegation of Australian politicians will venture across the Pacific to campaign for the immediate release of Julian Assange. The group, which takes in representatives from the Nationals, Liberals, Greens and independents, will meet with their congressional counterparts and other administration officials to plead Assange’s case.

They go armed with a letter signed by more than 60 Australian federal representatives, warning that Assange’s extradition to the United States – pursued by both Trump and Biden – would cause “outcry” in Australia.

The Australia-US Alliance has Long Gone Unchallenged. The Delegation to Free Julian Assange Changes That

The Australian politicians pushing for Assange’s release represents a rare crack in the wall of bipartisan support for the sacrosanct alliance.

australiainstitute.org.au

It wasn’t just my narrative

I assume you mean Assange? He had principles. You may not understand his and he probably wouldn't understand yours. But ultimately he believed in his principles so deeply that he knew he was putting his life at risk by following his principles.

That’s your opinion. That doesn’t make it fact.
At the first instance, he plead guilty.
How do you know what he believed in?
He might not have realised the scope of what he’d done. A lot of the documents he handed to his media partners.

All about the Truth.
A lot of those mentioned as on wikileaks “Advisory Board” including Philip Adams had no knowledge they were even named on it. The Board never even met. Just window dressing.

 

[Baloo]

It wasn’t just my narrative

Your narrative was they just signed a letter that a few wouldn't even have known what they signed. There was a delegation that went to the US in person to lobby the US.

That’s your opinion. That doesn’t make it fact.

Yes, it's my opinion that he has principles and believed in them to the point of putting his life at risk. The fact is that by publishing what he did, he put his life at risk.

At the first instance, he plead guilty.

Yes, he did. But if you can't see that this was a negotiated outcome to appease the US's sensitivities in an election year then I'm not sure what you are looking at.

How do you know what he believed in?

Because what he was saying was consistent with what he was doing. For me I'll give most people the benefit of the doubt if what they say is consistent with what they do.

He might not have realised the scope of what he’d done. A lot of the documents he handed to his media partners.

Yeah ok. I'd say he knew full well that publishing the documents that were leaked to Wikileaks would put him on the wrong side of some pretty powerful organisation.

Not sure what handing over documents to media partners is meant to mean. If my memory services me correctly, Wikileaks wasn't looking for an exclusive where they would only publish stuff on their site and no one else. Wikileaks made the info available to their media partners to publish as well. The goal was to expose the leaked material and using the traditional media outlets did that a lot better than just on Wikileaks.

But a lot of the stuff was too hot for traditional media to handle, so they didn't.

All about the Truth.

This thread is mainly about opinion, not the truth.

 

[Sintiger]

No I read that. It was a hypothetical question and I didn’t bother.


But I will now.
Completely different set of circumstances.
Iran isn’t our most important ally.
Iran has a history of subversion, terror, despotism, murder and everything else you could name. Support terrorists like Hamas, Hezbollah, Houthi’s and probably more.
Whatever Assange published, wouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone. Most of their actions are already known.
They are not a democratic state. They murder and torture their own citizens.

What an absolute load of complete dribble.
To even compare the US to Iran demonstrates your utter nonsensical argument. Well it’s not even an argument.
As a learned man was coined a term “none sense on stilts” . Just complete and utter ridiculousness in the extrem.

I’m surprised anyone would even attempt to use that as an argument. Next you’ll be comparing North Korea and Japan.



Absolute rot. Compare like with like.

And if he’s a criminal, he pays the penalty.
Like drug dealers in Asian countries. You know the penalty, don’t bleat about it when you’re caught.
Australian or not. Respect other countries laws.
As an Australian, were you happy he hid out in the Ecuador Embassy rather than go to Sweden to stand trial for sex crimes? Then wait it out until the statute of limitations expires?
If he wanted to be a “whistleblower” why wouldn’t he redact peoples names and not put them at risk?


Yeah the usual cop out.


Yeah, a man of no principles.
Sex crimes..won’t stand trail in Sweden to clear his name. hides out in the Ecuador embassy for years until the statute of limitations for sex offences expires. Except the alleged rape case.
Claims he won’t to go to Sweden in case the US extradites him and wants to murder him. Well if you
How could they extradite him if he’s done nothing wrong?

Then gets the arse from the Ecuador embassy for making an arse of himself in there.
Arrested by the Met police for breaching bail conditions. And jailed. Just like anyone else who breaks the law.
Now he plea bargain, pleads guilty to one charge and is set free.
If he isn’t guilty of anything why plead guilty?
If he is a man of principles why plead guilt?
If he was proud of being a whistleblower why plead guilty?
If he was an advocate of free speech why admit wrongdoing and plead guilty?

No man of principles. He’s just sucked the wokies and lwnj’s in . Which was always predictable.

Yep.

You have confirmed you don’t get it. Completely unable to understand principles in discussion.

Makes it pointless.

Bye.

 

[Tigaman]

Honestly I can't be bothered reading your tripe because you keep making up facts as you go and then when called out you can't man up and admit you made the *smile* up.

Smile