Adem Yze

[MalenyTiger]

The problem facing Yze is not only injuries but speculation on some senior players' futures whilst trying the young blokes in the side. Some of them don't have the tank yet. Most don't have the experience to handle the pressure at the top level and unfortunately our skills collectively have deteriorated steeply this season. This last bit I don't understand as this part of the puzzle makes it really difficult for Yze. Does he trust that the execution will improve as the team confidence improves? Yet the way we are going confidence is in short supply. Massive job ahead for the coaches.

 

[btoz_01]

We’ve been decimated by injuries and it’s reflected by our ladder position
Let’s hope we’re able to enjoy the spoils of finishing last or second last come draft day

 

[HKTigerB]

...... How similar do you see the 2nds game plan to the 1sts? We look a lot better already in the 2nds.

I see us trialling things in the VFL that we then try and execute in the AFL a few weeks later. Green surging into the square to tackle harass the opposition if the opposition sweep deep from a centre bounce. The run, kick and carry surge which we are trying but failing too much at AFL gets applied better/more often in the VFL. I think the "slower" pace of the VFL enables that.

I think we are blessed with a number of hard/hard at it VFL bodies that complement our AFL contingent. Joel Garner (he rucked yesterday), Brindley, Lachie Street before he got injured, Lachie Willson (small but harder than a cat's head) etc. provide a hard mature edge that enable our guys to flourish. Gut feel is that every VFL player has fully bought into the two way running gameplan. Sam Davidson, Scott, Olden, Guiney etc are noticeable in that facet alongside the older/more senior guys. Standing on the sidelines and seeing the two way running is impressive.

I think in multiple posts people have identified that we lack some of that two way effort at times. That I agree with and is where I'm seeing potentially better buy in from the VFL team overall.

 

[Dev Tiger]

I see us trialling things in the VFL that we then try and execute in the AFL a few weeks later. Green surging into the square to tackle harass the opposition if the opposition sweep deep from a centre bounce. The run, kick and carry surge which we are trying but failing too much at AFL gets applied better/more often in the VFL. I think the "slower" pace of the VFL enables that.

I think we are blessed with a number of hard/hard at it VFL bodies that complement our AFL contingent. Joel Garner (he rucked yesterday), Brindley, Lachie Street before he got injured, Lachie Willson (small but harder than a cat's head) etc. provide a hard mature edge that enable our guys to flourish. Gut feel is that every VFL player has fully bought into the two way running gameplan. Sam Davidson, Scott, Olden, Guiney etc are noticeable in that facet alongside the older/more senior guys. Standing on the sidelines and seeing the two way running is impressive.

I think in multiple posts people have identified that we lack some of that two way effort at times. That I agree with and is where I'm seeing potentially better buy in from the VFL team overall.

Ollie Grant has done a great job with the VFL list. Hopefully he is working with the AFL recruiting department as well.

 

[Feeling Tigerish]

Those who are privy to monthly executive group coaches update all think he is clueless

That’s not great to hear.

 

[craig]

I dont know if he can coach or not but we're gonna find out a lot more in regard to that over the next 18 -24 months.

Has he got the players on board because thats the number one thing he needed to achieve this year.

 

[Tiggy Train]

How many first year coaches in the history of vfl/afl have won a Wooden Spoon?
He’s going to be in rare company and I believe it was the wrong time for the club to get a new coach with a lot of Hardwick’s team still there. It basically should’ve still been mini as he was part of the Hardwick history and in two years time when most had moved on or retired and if mini hadn’t improved the newbies then a new coach comes in. We would’ve saved a truckload of money and probably at least one coach. I think Yze is now the sacrificial lamb like Wallace and if he survives it he will probably be a long serving coach, but the odds are stacked against him.

 

[Coburgtiger]

From where I sat I could see us try that same approach about 10 times in the game. I reckon we executed it about twice, once for Rhyan's goal and once earlier in the game. We turned it over with poor kicks and smothered/blocked handballs at least 5 or 6 times and a couple of times ran into stoppages. So the plan is there the execution under gameday/pressure is not. Sadly a couple of times the pressure was self inflicted (i.e. we handpassed into a poor position) or rushed disposal when the pressure was not there. That's learning and poise that needs to be gained by experience (hopefully).

To me, it's a concern if a game plan results in a goal 1 out of 10 attempts.

Even accounting for inexperience.

The best plans are simple and robust. That's how you keep your shape in finals and grand finals, when pressure erodes complexity, and forges blunt force.

We were a dynasty team for a lot of reasons, but one part of that is a simple, bulletproof game plan, built for finals, that each member of the squad could distill down to a few words on a wrist band.

And, yeah, an incredible core group.

Something to note, is we tended not to win big or lose big. We also tended to keep winning with injuries to key players.

If a game plan requires a team of 1st round draft picks to function, then it isn't much of a game plan. If you have the best squad in the league, all you have to do is not get on their way.

It takes a talented coach to compete with an average list.

I would be concerned that if we are successful in ten percent of attempts with an inexperienced list during the home and away season, it will be similar with a talented and experienced list in finals.

 

[tigers80]

What’s his contract length?
middle on next year will be interesting

 

[The_General]

Suggest you watch the game
Then suggest you listen to YZe regarding exciting game plans eg pre sesson
Those who are privy to monthly executive group coaches update all think he is clueless
Footy ain’t this hard
But to watch the trash we dished up yesterday and the previous week
We will finish bottom
It’s garbage !
Injuries, Prestia is finished as is Grimes
Pickett last year
Lynch is at the very end of his career and was injury prone with knee issues at the Suns .
The others besides Gibcus are hardly “ lock ins “ each week
Naismith , Ross , Clarke

So,the guy has gone from being the mastermind behind Melbourne's premiership, a shrewd tactician that impressed the likes of Clarkson, Balme, Buckley etc, to clueless?
Yeah, nah, I call *smile*.

 

[HKTigerB]

To me, it's a concern if a game plan results in a goal 1 out of 10 attempts.

Even accounting for inexperience.

The best plans are simple and robust. That's how you keep your shape in finals and grand finals, when pressure erodes complexity, and forges blunt force.

We were a dynasty team for a lot of reasons, but one part of that is a simple, bulletproof game plan, built for finals, that each member of the squad could distill down to a few words on a wrist band.

And, yeah, an incredible core group.

Something to note, is we tended not to win big or lose big. We also tended to keep winning with injuries to key players.

If a game plan requires a team of 1st round draft picks to function, then it isn't much of a game plan. If you have the best squad in the league, all you have to do is not get on their way.

It takes a talented coach to compete with an average list.

I would be concerned that if we are successful in ten percent of attempts with an inexperienced list during the home and away season, it will be similar with a talented and experienced list in finals.

I hear you, but your point means I probably didn't explain well enough. I see it more that with confidence in where our teammates are and making slightly better choices we probably execute 60%+. At that level we stop the turnover goals against ourselves and get 6 additional inside 50's where we have players clear out the back.

The one's I can recall, Kamdyn kicks to Seth on the wing but it's a loopy kick and the blues player gets across and spoils OOB. (Note: The training drills are focused on flat hard kicks and Kamdyn got called out at training for loopy kicks.) Had that kick got to Seth, Noah was out the back and clear of Weitering. Another one we worked the ball well off halfback, kick over the top (Hugo I think), He has an inside option and outside option but on the inside there are two blues defenders squeezing up. He either had to out side and around the blues or feign going outside to draw the defender wide and then go inside. He went inside without feigning and the two blues collapsed in and we had a stoppage (I think it was Taranto that got caught). Those are decision making/execution errors that can be fixed. Three or four other such surges were similar. It's just a little more confidence, understanding between teammates and the execution pays off.

If anything I see it more aligned to 2017 and just needing the players to "trust" and execute, so yes some additional talent but it as much workrate and effort which we have seen appears better at the VFL level so it is doable with many of the current list imho.

Speed/endurance and two way running are needed along with ability to execute to some acceptable level.

 

[Harry]

He may be a good gameplan tactician with footy intelligence but if he doesn't establish certain standards and non negotiable quickly such as commitment to a contest and defensive efforts, he won't last long as senior coach.

 

[Tigerwa]

Jury out for me.
I think he has come in not wanting to rock the boat.
Next year it has to be all him and stamp himself ON THE TEAM and what he wants and how we play on the team.
The feel is he is following instructions almost.
Hard to see a clear blueprint of what he wants not made easy by a lot of injuries.
My biggest worry we fail to embrace a rebuild and we get lost in the wilderness again.

 

[Coburgtiger]

I hear you, but your point means I probably didn't explain well enough. I see it more that with confidence in where our teammates are and making slightly better choices we probably execute 60%+. At that level we stop the turnover goals against ourselves and get 6 additional inside 50's where we have players clear out the back.

The one's I can recall, Kamdyn kicks to Seth on the wing but it's a loopy kick and the blues player gets across and spoils OOB. (Note: The training drills are focused on flat hard kicks and Kamdyn got called out at training for loopy kicks.) Had that kick got to Seth, Noah was out the back and clear of Weitering. Another one we worked the ball well off halfback, kick over the top (Hugo I think), He has an inside option and outside option but on the inside there are two blues defenders squeezing up. He either had to out side and around the blues or feign going outside to draw the defender wide and then go inside. He went inside without feigning and the two blues collapsed in and we had a stoppage (I think it was Taranto that got caught). Those are decision making/execution errors that can be fixed. Three or four other such surges were similar. It's just a little more confidence, understanding between teammates and the execution pays off.

If anything I see it more aligned to 2017 and just needing the players to "trust" and execute, so yes some additional talent but it as much workrate and effort which we have seen appears better at the VFL level so it is doable with many of the current list imho.

Speed/endurance and two way running are needed along with ability to execute to some acceptable level.

I hear what you're saying, and you may be right.

To me, however, it sounds like a game plan requiring a high degree of technical proficiency under pressure, which, when executed poorly, creates extreme vulnerability.

Perhaps if it becomes second nature with quality footballers, the reward for the risk is there.

But it's similar to how Geelong always came unstuck against us in finals.

I'm also not suggesting a reversion to an outdated game plan.

Just that the current one might be too ambitious. We've been training it for 7 or 8 months, and look like a rabble. There is time. I'm sceptical.

 

[Tigers2011]

Hard not to be concerned. I’ve been to all but a couple of interstate matches and aside from trying to win centre clearance and kicking long to take territory & force contests, I’ve no idea what the actual game plan is. We’ve certainly lost the ballistic, take the game on style from 2017-2020. Even 2022.

The lack lustre effort in the biggest of club days to celebrate Dusty’s 300th was unforgivable. Surely the coaching staff had to get the team up for that match.

Perplexing selections (especially with younger players as subs); no plan B in game; inconsistent effort & intensity; single way of kicking in from behinds (rinse, repeat, turnover, opposition goal) & glacier ball movement & it’s a mess.

Not convinced injuries are solely to blame with the type of football being played. Anyway jury out for me, but 2 wins and a % of 60 isn’t acceptable.

 

[Tigers2011]

Huge off season awaits

 

[Stig]

You need to stop posting and proving to everybody that you know nothing about football.

Do you really think a team that has played almost every player on the senior list and has had zero continuity is going to master a brand new gameplan?

BTW genius, I'm still awaiting your response to my question. But I know you won't reply because you know NOTHING about football.

What’s the question and I will answer it for you
you are right . I know nothing

 

[Stig]

Generally takes half a year to implement a game plan. This has been wrecked by injuries. For gods sake we have used over 40 players already for the year.

Who knows whether he can coach but until he gets a decent run with some players you cant really tell

Give you a tip
The 40 players all train together
Rubbish excuse

 

[Stig]

I was tempted to start a new thread called the "Rational Discussion Thread" but figured I'd post in here.

The last goal we kicked, by Rhyan, was our gameplan on full display. Yes it was late in the game and yes Carlton may have eased off but that was our "EKP" and "Control and Surge" drills on full display. My recollection is that it Miller, Brown, Banks, Rioli, Kosi and Nigel all involved. I stand to be corrected on who the actual players were and if I can bother/bear to watch a replay I'll call out who was involved in the chain.

From where I sat I could see us try that same approach about 10 times in the game. I reckon we executed it about twice, once for Rhyan's goal and once earlier in the game. We turned it over with poor kicks and smothered/blocked handballs at least 5 or 6 times and a couple of times ran into stoppages. So the plan is there the execution under gameday/pressure is not. Sadly a couple of times the pressure was self inflicted (i.e. we handpassed into a poor position) or rushed disposal when the pressure was not there. That's learning and poise that needs to be gained by experience (hopefully).

So if, and it's a big if but it is where we need to develop, we can execute more than 50% of those chains/surges we go from conceding 10 goals on turnover to far closer to the league average of 3 to 4 and we increase our scoring by 2 or 3 goals. That in yesterday's game reduces the Blues to somewhere in to 90's for points scored and get's us up into the 80's.

That to me is a combination of confidence, belief and trust in your teammates that is not quite there on gameday. Something I can understand when there is very limited consistency with the same playing group.

Give you a tip
We are the only team this year not to kick 100 points or more
Gameplan is terrible ( if there is one )
We fail miserably to maintain ball inside F50 and we simply don’t press high enough
Then when opposition win ball back
Onballers especially don’t fold back quick enough to support the defenders
Simply not good enough
Dow huge culprit thus got dropped last week and should play VFL for remainder of year

 

[Ghost of Punt Road]

I am starting to hope that Yze is following a tanking plan. Not what I want as such, but it would explain how little the team is performing.

It isn't a team of rookies. There are enough good players that a team with a good system would be doing better than this.