1: read the 911 commission report.Disco08 said:
2: the answer to my question is not in the 911 report, it's in your Head. Again, you said "I can,t and most people can,t" accept the truth. Please explain the "most" part of that statement.
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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
911 Truth Movement
- Thread starter Harry
- Start date
2: the answer to my question is not in the 911 report, it's in your Head. Again, you said "I can,t and most people can,t" accept the truth. Please explain the "most" part of that statement.
No. If you honstly believe the 9/11 commission report is the truth I'm not going to waste my time explaining anything to you. You obviously have no idea and no interest in educating yourself.
It's a complete scam when the people whose failures cost 3000 people their lives aren't even made to testify on the record. It's also a complete scam when a good friend of those people is the person who dictates the direction of the inquiry.
What I'm posting are my honest thoughts on matters that I've put a lot of time into researching. I couldn't care less if it annoys you.
"Trusters" was being used on another forum a had a look at. People arguing against complicity used it and seemed to not be offended at all by it.
tigersnake said:
It's a complete scam when the people whose failures cost 3000 people their lives aren't even made to testify on the record. It's also a complete scam when a good friend of those people is the person who dictates the direction of the inquiry.
What I'm posting are my honest thoughts on matters that I've put a lot of time into researching. I couldn't care less if it annoys you.
"Trusters" was being used on another forum a had a look at. People arguing against complicity used it and seemed to not be offended at all by it.
Disco08 said:
I reckon 'unhatted' is better myself. Again with the straw man tactics. I have repeatedly and clearly stated that I know the report is not the full picture, and I've repeatedly and clearly stated why I believe that is the case.
As for the guts of the report, that an extremest islamic terrorist cell breeched shoddy security, hijacked some jumbo jets and crashed into and destroyed the WTC, I'm happy to go with that. I have no idea and no interest in educating myself. No good ever came from books.
How am I uneducated?Disco08 said:
Why do I have " no idea"?
Why would it be waste of time?
I'm just trying to get you to expand on your comment and you are running faster than Oscar Pistorious from them. Geez, sound like you think you're better than me.....
Agreed tim. Some conspiracy theories are as bad or worse than the OR.
I'm not running at all. If you want to keep insisting the 9/11 commission report is the truth then honestly I'm just going to ignore you because 5 minutes on Google is all you need to know that you're wrong.
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=9%2F11+commission+report+contradictions&oq=9%2F11+commission+report+contrad&gs_l=hp.1.1.33i21l2.0.0.3.185.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..3.psy-ab.WnoleDAh7Ss&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dGI&fp=9314d7ab122d032b&biw=1366&bih=592
So you realise the first sentence of that quote was a reply to tim don't you?
Not to mention being so sloppy that countries from all over the world warned of an imminent threat from al Qaeda using hijacked planes targeting the WTC and Pentagon. How security was shoddy in that conext is anyone's guess. They then flew 4 large airliners through the most protected airspace on Earth but were not intercepted at all by any of the jets protecting that airspace even though those jets can fly 5 times faster, intercept wayward planes routinely and were located close by. One of the hijackers also managed to fly manouvres that many aviation experts describe as phenomenal despite never having flown a 757 before.
On a different note - this guy might be a chance of making something happen.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/332580
tigertim said:
I'm not running at all. If you want to keep insisting the 9/11 commission report is the truth then honestly I'm just going to ignore you because 5 minutes on Google is all you need to know that you're wrong.
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=9%2F11+commission+report+contradictions&oq=9%2F11+commission+report+contrad&gs_l=hp.1.1.33i21l2.0.0.3.185.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0.les%3B..0.0...1c..3.psy-ab.WnoleDAh7Ss&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dGI&fp=9314d7ab122d032b&biw=1366&bih=592
tigersnake said:
So you realise the first sentence of that quote was a reply to tim don't you?
tigersnake said:
Not to mention being so sloppy that countries from all over the world warned of an imminent threat from al Qaeda using hijacked planes targeting the WTC and Pentagon. How security was shoddy in that conext is anyone's guess. They then flew 4 large airliners through the most protected airspace on Earth but were not intercepted at all by any of the jets protecting that airspace even though those jets can fly 5 times faster, intercept wayward planes routinely and were located close by. One of the hijackers also managed to fly manouvres that many aviation experts describe as phenomenal despite never having flown a 757 before.
On a different note - this guy might be a chance of making something happen.
http://digitaljournal.com/article/332580
I'm just wondering why you won't answer the question. I'm also wondering why you're so aggressive and offensive to me saying I have no idea and not willing to educate myself. I'm also bemused you tell me to check google for 5 minutes for the "truth". How many times have the realists corrected the theorists theories by checking google for 5 minutes? The truth has been announced Disco, if you don't believe it PROVE otherwise not just send links to websites with theories and unanswered questions.Disco08 said:
One shred of proof. Go.
Nope. Just click the link and read for a few minutes. Is that too hard for you?
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=9%2F11+commission+report+errors&oq=9%2F11+commission+report+errors&gs_l=hp.3..0i30.25151.25911.4.26675.7.7.0.0.0.6.267.1687.2-7.7.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.3.psy-ab.zbyi7zHRf3M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dGI&fp=9314d7ab122d032b&biw=1366&bih=592
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=9%2F11+commission+report+errors&oq=9%2F11+commission+report+errors&gs_l=hp.3..0i30.25151.25911.4.26675.7.7.0.0.0.6.267.1687.2-7.7.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.3.psy-ab.zbyi7zHRf3M&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dGI&fp=9314d7ab122d032b&biw=1366&bih=592
Senator Max Cleland – Former member of the 9/11 Commission, resigned in December 2003 "I, as a member of the [9/11] Commission, cannot look any American in the eye... It is a national scandal... this White House wants to cover [9/11] up."
Senator Mark Dayton ~ Member, Senate Committee on Armed Services and Homeland Security "[NORAD] lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 Commission...the most gross incompetence and dereliction of responsibility and negligence"
Congressman Ron Paul - Vice Chairman of the Oversight and Investigations subcommittee "the [9/11] investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation"
Congressman Curt Weldon - "[9/11 Commission] there's something very sinister going on here... something desperately wrong... This involved what is right now the covering up of information that led to the deaths of 3,000 people"
Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney - Member of the House Armed Services Committee "the [9/11] Commission ran up against obstruction by the administration and non-cooperation from government agencies... the errors and omissions immediately jumped out at us"
Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh – "[9/11 Commission] findings--raises serious challenges to the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render the commission historically insignificant itself"
Senator Mark Dayton ~ Member, Senate Committee on Armed Services and Homeland Security "[NORAD] lied to the American people, they lied to Congress and they lied to your 9/11 Commission...the most gross incompetence and dereliction of responsibility and negligence"
Congressman Ron Paul - Vice Chairman of the Oversight and Investigations subcommittee "the [9/11] investigations that have been done so far as more or less cover-up and no real explanation"
Congressman Curt Weldon - "[9/11 Commission] there's something very sinister going on here... something desperately wrong... This involved what is right now the covering up of information that led to the deaths of 3,000 people"
Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney - Member of the House Armed Services Committee "the [9/11] Commission ran up against obstruction by the administration and non-cooperation from government agencies... the errors and omissions immediately jumped out at us"
Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh – "[9/11 Commission] findings--raises serious challenges to the commission's credibility and, if the facts prove out, might just render the commission historically insignificant itself"
Oh, look. A distraction!Disco08 said:
Yeah, I read them, nice.
Is it too hard for you to stop dancing and answer my questions?
Who are "most" people who don't believe the truth?
Why do I have "no idea"?
Why am I uneducated.
Why are you being so personal?
Disco08 said:
Nice, more random quotes that mean nothing. (And if I bother to check them out thoroughly are probably taken out of context ) for se in theorist websites like so many others.
Of course I could go and google quotes tat praise the report but that'd be waste of time.
Disco08 said:
I clicked on the link (this address speciaifically within the site - http://davidraygriffin.com/articles/911-and-the-american-empire-how-should-religious-people-respond/) and read this part and find it very hard to believe. Actually, I find it unbelievable. And like most of these truthers websites, I am turned off from reading any more. Do you believe this story Disco?
5. Evidence for Foreknowledge by US Officials
A central aspect of the official story about 9/11 is that the attacks were planned entirely by al Qaeda, with no one else knowing the plans. A year after the attacks, FBI Director Robert Mueller said: “To this day we have found no one in the United States except the actual hijackers who knew of the plot.”18 Since that time, federal officials have had to admit that they had received far more warnings prior to 9/11 than they had previously acknowledged. But these admissions, while raising the question of why further safety measures were not put in place, do not necessarily show that federal officials had specific foreknowledge of the attacks. One could still, as did the 9/11 Commission, accept the conclusion published at the end of 2002 by the Congressional Joint Inquiry, according to which “none of [the intelligence gathered by the US intelligence community] identified the time, place, and specific nature of the attacks that were planned for September 11, 2001.”20
Unfortunately for the official account, however, there are reports indicating that federal officials did have that very specific type of information. I will give two examples.
David Schippers and the FBI Agents: The first example involves attorney David Schippers, who had been the chief prosecutor for the impeachment of President Clinton. Two days after 9/11, Schippers declared that he had received warnings from FBI agents about the attacks six weeks earlier–warnings that included both the dates and the targets. These agents had come to him, Schippers said, because FBI headquarters had blocked their investigations and threatened them with prosecution if they went public with their information. They asked Schippers to use his influence to get the government to take action to prevent the attacks. Schippers was highly respected in Republican circles, especially because of his role in the impeachment of Clinton. And yet, he reported, Attorney General Ashcroft repeatedly failed to return his calls.21
Schippers’ allegations about the FBI agents were corroborated in a story by William Norman Grigg called “Did We Know What Was Coming?”, which was published in The New American, a very conservative magazine. According to Grigg, the three FBI agents he interviewed told him “that the information provided to Schippers was widely known within the Bureau before September 11th.”22
If Schippers, Grigg, and these agents are telling the truth, it would seem that when FBI Director Mueller claimed that the FBI had found no one in this country with advance knowledge of the plot, he was not telling the truth.
So I am to believe 6 weeks before the attacks the FBI knew all the details (and obviously plenty of people within the FBI knew the details) and because the Attorney General doesn't return his calls David Schippers just drops it? The FBI agents just drop it? What, they didn't think to copy, gather the damning evidence showing the forewarning and release it? David didn't think to call someone else in the 6 weeks leading up to the attack? Maybe tip off a journalist?
tigertim said:
You have no idea because you keep insisting the 9/11 commission report is the truth despite so much evidence that it's not. I assume you won't educate yourself on this because you keep insisting it. I'm not being personal - I'm attacking your opinon not you.
Just about everyone in this thread truther or truster has recognised the fact that the 9/11 commission report is flawed. Any reasonably intelligent person could confirm that in a few minutes.
tigertim said:
http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=3&gs_ri=psy-ab&pq=9%2F11%20commission%20report&cp=29&gs_id=tu&xhr=t&q=9%2F11%20commission%20report%20praIse&es_nrs=true&pf=p&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&oq=9/11+commission+report+praIse&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.42553238,d.dGY&fp=9314d7ab122d032b&biw=1366&bih=619
:hihi
Couldn't find much. Can you?
Those quotes are not random. They're from senior officials and address the commission report specifically. They're also pretty blunt and hard to take out of context.
Soda said:
Why would these people lie?
Those questions would be best posed to David Schipper, William Grigg and the FBI agents. Preferably in a proper inquiry but you don't now how hard they tried to get this information out and how much resistance they encountered.
Pretty compelling if you take it at fact value though isn't it?
So by the same token then you have no idea because you believe far fetched stories, theories, propositions that have no truth whatsoever.Disco08 said:
But you have been educated by the realists here and conceded quote a few issues that were easily corrected through a quick google search.
I belive in the truth. The truth has been decided by an independent commission. Again you don't like it so feel free to come up with any proof you may wish. Not conjecture, quotes, links to theorists websites or throwing out unanswered questions.
Proof. You can't do it because your theories are baseless so can't be proven by you or anybody.
Disco08 said:
Where is the evidence? So all these people knew al Qaeda was going to hijack planes, fly them into the WTC on Sep 11 but somehow none of them could alert the public? None of them went to the press? And none of them have subsequently provided any real actual evidence of this specific forewarning? And why has David Schippers not been on TV with this story? If he was to get bumped off now I'm sure it would raise a few eyebrows, he would be the safest man in the US. He's just not credible IMO.
Here is the transcript of Schippers with Alex Jones (I now know why he hasn't been on TV), read that and tell me you think he's got a bona fide story. You note that nowhere does he say there was specific info about the date/time of the attacks.
http://www.infowars.com/transcript_schippers.html
The 9/11 commission wasn't an independent inquiry tim.
What theories am I presenting?
My opinion, stated over and over, is that I believe the 9/11 commission was nothing more than an extension of the cover up undertaken by the US government after 9/11. I support a proper inquiry because of that. I believe the actions of some in the US government contributed to the success of the attacks and that is another reason I support a proper inquiry. I also believe there's a lot of evidence suggestive of complicity but won't say it was certainly an inside job until a proper inquiry is held.
You on the other hand insist that the 9/11 commission report - critisized by so many people (including many trusters) on so many levels - is the undeniable truth. Is that right? You honestly believe that report describes the events of 9/11 completely and truthfully?
What theories am I presenting?
My opinion, stated over and over, is that I believe the 9/11 commission was nothing more than an extension of the cover up undertaken by the US government after 9/11. I support a proper inquiry because of that. I believe the actions of some in the US government contributed to the success of the attacks and that is another reason I support a proper inquiry. I also believe there's a lot of evidence suggestive of complicity but won't say it was certainly an inside job until a proper inquiry is held.
You on the other hand insist that the 9/11 commission report - critisized by so many people (including many trusters) on so many levels - is the undeniable truth. Is that right? You honestly believe that report describes the events of 9/11 completely and truthfully?
