911 Truth Movement

[Harry]

those damn beavers

 

[Disco08]

You've repeatedly said you don't have "beliefs" about 9/11, you just have questions and want an honest and independent investigation.

So c'mon Disco, tell us all what you really believe happened.

I believe the 9/11 commission was part of the overall cover up that included destruction and suppression of vital evidence. Whether the cover up was intended to conceal complicity or incompetence is up for debate but my belief is that at least the PNAC members and Bush and Rice were complicit. I believe the failings of the commission and NIST reports are reason enough to hold a proper inquiry.

Not sure how many times I've said that in this thread but it must be double figures by now.

 

[AngryAnt]

I believe the 9/11 commission was part of the overall cover up that included destruction and suppression of vital evidence. Whether the cover up was intended to conceal complicity or incompetence is up for debate but my belief is that at least the PNAC members and Bush and Rice were complicit. I believe the failings of the commission and NIST reports are reason enough to hold a proper inquiry.

Not sure how many times I've said that in this thread but it must be double figures by now.

So you truly believe the PNAC members, Bush and Rice, were complicit.

Complicit in what?

 

[Disco08]

Allowing the plot to succeed.

 

[AngryAnt]

Which plot?

Who conceived and executed this plot?

 

[Baloo]

Maybe I was a bit naughty grouping you troofers all together. I guess there is a difference in the the newly labelled 'intelligent' troofers and the nutters. A bit like one group believing in God who don't discount ID whereas the other swear by ID.

 

[Disco08]

Which plot?

Who conceived and executed this plot?

al Qaeda.

Which plot? Seriously?

 

[AngryAnt]

Aren't you forgetting about Larry's insurance scam plot, the controlled demolition plot (or plots), and the demolition squad death squad plots?

Seriously?

 

[Disco08]

Not at all. Conjecture remember? Not everyone thinks they know everything. Perhaps that's why some of us support a proper investigation and others don't.

 

[Disco08]

all nutters disco who have nothing better to do. along with all those architects, engineers, firemen, pilots, scholars, lawyers, family and friends and others. all conspiracy theorists who are paranoid crackpots and have an agenda against the government.

Here's my 2 favourites:

Senator Mike Gravel – Former U.S. Senator from Alaska 1969 - 1980. Candidate for the 2008 Democratic Presidential nomination. Most well known for entering over 4,000 pages of the Pentagon Papers into the U.S. Senate record, thus making public the secret official study that revealed the lies and manipulations of successive U.S. administrations that misled the country into the Vietnam War. (See also Daniel Ellsberg.) Also known for his successful one-man filibuster for five months in 1971 that forced the Nixon administration to cut a deal, effectively ending the draft (military conscription) in the United States. Former Member, Alaska House of Representatives 1962-1966, elected Speaker in 1965. Former Counter-Intelligence officer, U.S. Army. Founder, The Democracy Foundation. Author of Citizen Power: A People's Platform (1972), Pentagon Papers, In Four Volumes: The Defense Department History of United States Decisionmaking on Vietnam (1971), Jobs and More Jobs (1968). Contributing author to The Case for a Nuclear Moratorium (1974).

Member: Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth Association Statement:

"Scholars and professionals with various kinds of expertise---including architects, engineers, firefighters, intelligence officers, lawyers, medical professionals, military officers, philosophers, religious leaders, physical scientists, and pilots---have spoken out about radical discrepancies between the official account of the 9/11 attacks and what they, as independent researchers, have learned.

They have established beyond any reasonable doubt that the official account of 9/11 is false and that, therefore, the official “investigations” have really been cover-up operations.

Thus far, however, there has been no response from political leaders in Washington or, for that matter, in other capitals around the world. Our organization, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth, has been formed to help bring about such a response.

We believe that the truth about 9/11 needs to be exposed now---not in 50 years as a footnote in the history books---so the policies that have been based on the Bush-Cheney administration’s interpretation of the 9/11 attacks can be changed.

We are, therefore, calling for a new, independent investigation of 9/11 that takes account of evidence that has been documented by independent researchers but thus far ignored by governments and the mainstream media."

[youtube=560,315]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE6XLYfAhG0&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.911blogger.com%2Fnode%2F10561[/youtube]

Louis Freeh – Director of the FBI, 1993 - 2001. Former U.S. District Court Judge for the Southern District of New York, appointed by President George H.W. Bush. Former Deputy United States Attorney in New York. Former FBI agent. Former officer in the United States Army JAG Corps Reserve.

Interview Lou Dobbs Tonight CNN 11/30/05: Regarding the Able Danger anti-terrorism data mining program.

Lou Dobbs: Why is there this reaction to what is called by more than half of our congressmen and women, to open up and to allow our elected representatives to know what happened?

Louis Freeh: Well, it's a great question. I mean, the issue here, which was the issue when the 9/11 commission first responded to this, is they obviously missed something. They obviously didn't consider what at least is a very important allegation.

Their response to it, it was historically insignificant. Historically insignificant that an intelligence unit may have identified by name and photo, Mohamed Atta a year before the 9/11 hijackings as a member of al Qaeda in the United States.

Lou Dobbs: Tim Roemer, Slade Gorton, other members of the 9/11 commission have said they just had no hard evidence to deal with here. How do you respond?

Louis Freeh: I disagree with that. I was a prosecutor and an FBI agent for many, many years. I deal in facts. You have two witnesses. You have United States Naval Academy graduate, Captain Phillpott, you have Lieutenant Colonel Shaffer, an army intelligence officer. These aren't data loaders, these are intelligence experts who both have said, unequivocally, this unit identified Mohammed Atta by name and possibly photo in mid 2000.

To say that they don't have any documents to prove their case, these aren't informants that we have to verify their credibility. We have testimonial evidence, which, as a prosecutor, that's more potent sometimes than documentary evidence.

Lou Dobbs: You were director of the FBI until June of 2001. Were you ever aware of Able Danger? Was the FBI ever given any reason to sense that there was some military intelligence or military intelligence evidence or suggestion that there would be an attack or some relationship to Mohamed Atta?

Louis Freeh: Absolutely not. Myself, but also my former colleagues and current FBI colleagues, we read about this in the newspapers in August of this year. And what is very significant here Lou -- which is a point that has been made, and which I think you made -- we had officers at Able Danger who made appointments, actually made appointments to go to the FBI and share this intelligence in 2000 and those appointments were canceled.

It had to be a very powerful stimulus, this intelligence and information, to make these officers want to really breach the chain of command and go directly to the FBI. We'd like to know why those appointments were canceled." http://transcripts.cnn.com

 

[AngryAnt]

Not at all. Conjecture remember? Not everyone thinks they know everything. Perhaps that's why some of us support a proper investigation and others don't.

For you "conjecture" is a handy term which means you don't have take any intellectual responsibility for things you assert.

 

[Disco08]

Rubbish. I've never asserted any of those things for a reason. You've just got the *smile* because you can't rationally attack my beliefs.

 

[Baloo]

Rubbish. I've never asserted any of those things for a reason. You've just got the sh!ts because you can't rationally attack my beliefs.

hard to rationally debate irrational beliefs.

 

[evo]

This is where I beg to differ, governments probably enjoy 'birthers' & 'tea baggers' but I doubt they enjoy being associated with mass murderers. I think the thing that seperates the 9/11 truth movement from other conspiracies is that it transcends the political divide. I would imagine the gun tote'n rednecks would be happy enough to tow the conspiracy line if it meant they could further entrench their paranoid delusions of an America at war with itself. As Republican governer Jesse Ventura screams conspiracy, the wrestlemania militia would be doing somersaults in the hills and burning effigies of Obama bin Laden. I maybe wrong but I doubt government distrust in the US has ever plumbed to such depths. Even Tricky Dicky is looking like a petty crim these days.

I don;t really understand what you are trying to say. I got the 9/11 crosses political divide(9/11 is not unique in that regard by any means) but the rest didn't really make sense to me.

 

[evo]

Why can't the rest of us, as intelligent people, forget the nutters and focus on the facts and what's right?

I got nothing against focussing on the facts. I'm not paying a huge attention to every minutae of the arguments ( I did all this back about 5 yerars ago on a another foruim) but seems to me most of the 'facts' you've been providing have been fairly easily batted away by TS, tim, baloo antman and a couple of others with minimal effort.

 

[Disco08]

On some fronts maybe. Others not so much.

So the facts I'm referring to here are that Bush's regime ignored multiple specific warnings and then destroyed and suppressed evidence and rigged the commission. They're enough facts to support a proper inquiry IMO

hard to rationally debate irrational beliefs.

Why are they irrational Baloo?

 

[Baloo]

To believe the US Government and its agencies knew the details of the pending attacks and acted in a manner to allow them to happen is just plain and simple irrational thinking.

 

[Disco08]

Why?

 

[Baloo]

Why?

I think that's been discussed and debated a few dozen times on this thread already. You think it's a perfectly valid belief to have, I find it incredulous. I'm not going to change my mind and it looks like neither are you so try to accept the fact that I think you're being irrational. Repeating why over and over is not going to resolve anything.

I can accept the fact some people want to believe the US were complicit in 911. Can you accept the fact most people find that belief irrational, ridiculous or incredulous ?

 

[Disco08]

Of course not because you have no way of knowing it's "most people". Various opinion polls have acceptance of the OR (al Qaeda solely responsible) below 50%. Worldwide hundreds of millions of people believe the US government was complicit to some degree.

I can accept that you and some others find that belief irrational and ridiculous but thats says more about you and your inability to accept anything other than your own beliefs.