911 Truth Movement

[tigersnake]

This rings true for me. I can't help but think that if Bush was in the know, he'd have had a planned reaction. Hustling off to look like he was taking action. Instead he looked like a stunned mullet.

Bush and senior military were stunned mullets. The thing is, I don't really blame them, I can see why they were. For all the strategic minds and cutting edge technology, who could have a) predicted, and b) reacted instantly and effectively to an event so shocking, unpredictable and fast as Sep 11. The most powerful regime ever were wrong-footed.

I do object to the post-fact posturing, which any political regime anywhere would have done as well, which tried to erase the initial headless chook/ sh!t scared reaction from history.

Also, I don't trust the US government either. They have a record of covert support of dodgy regimes all over the world as long as your arm. Thing is, they these also tend to be uncovered quickly by anyone who cares to look.

 

[evo]

Ever read anything about General Macarthur?

Aren't the Filipinos still waiting for him to return? ;D

 

[tigersnake]

Aren't the Filipinos still waiting for him to return? ;D

I think a lot of people here in Brisbane are as well.

 

[Azza]

Ever read anything about General Macarthur?

What about him? A self-publicising, less than impressive military man, and loose canon.

Northwoods was endorsed by the Defense Department, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of Defense.

 

[Azza]

Bush and senior military were stunned mullets. The thing is, I don't really blame them, I can see why they were. For all the strategic minds and cutting edge technology, who could have a) predicted, and b) reacted instantly and effectively to an event so shocking, unpredictable and fast as Sep 11. The most powerful regime ever were wrong-footed.

Well, the 911 scenario had been modelled, so it shouldn't have been a complete surprise.

Also, I don't trust the US government either. They have a record of covert support of dodgy regimes all over the world as long as your arm.

Sure, but most would say planned attack on an ally (the UK) is crossing the line! Must look up the Falcon and the Snowman biz again.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

What about him? A self-publicising, less than impressive military man, and loose canon.

Northwoods was endorsed by the Defense Department, Joint Chiefs of Staff, and Secretary of Defense.

put six of him in a room and see what kooky stuff they come up with?

 

[Azza]

put six of him in a room and see what kooky stuff they come up with?

MacArthur was a loner. Northwoods was developed and endorsed by a government department and the Joint Chiefs, meaning it reflected the philosophy of the US government body corporate. Far more damning on the US system than one mentally unstable general.

 

[Disco08]

I think that relentlessly and emphatically pushing a piece of evidence as if its proven or accepted, such as the plane windows, when a quick google search disproves it is a little crackpottish.

I also think that producing evidence such as people hearing explosions as compelling, when it is perfectly conceivable that with all he chaos, falling debris, failing buildings, twisting metal etc, that people would have heard very loud noises that may well have sounded like explosives, is also a little crackpottish.

Jennings says he heard and saw evidence of multiple explosions, as well as the evacuation of WTC7 before either tower collapsed. The implication is obvious.

All I did was ask you guys for a good photo of the windows on that flight. None of you posted one so in between being really busy at work and getting on the drink I found time to convince myself there was enough evidence to disregard the gray plane theory. I never insited it was true. If you think I did I'd like to see which post gave you that impression. FWIW I reckon this photo, and I think it's only this one, which refutes it adequately:

This is the second time you've made false claims about my posts. I didn't suggest that's what should have been expected at all. "If" the remains appeared to be human in a away obvious enough to claim them as such they'd need to be more than bone and flesh. I expect nothing though. It's a very big stretch to cling to such a tenuous claim as though it was fact when there was nothing to support the claim.

There's two newpaper reports saying residents, business people and police in areas miles from the original crash site saw crash debris including human remains. To me that's solid evidence that has yet to be confirmed or refuted. I asked you before why you think the commission never interviewed these people. Any ideas? Do you think it should have interviewed them given their accounts contradicted the OR?

FWIW, it was this post that started the hand/foot sidebar. I only mentioned the hand/foot thing to try and demonstrate why each body part wouldn't be listed if there were multiple findings.

I'd find it more unlikely that someone amongst those numerous people wouldn't be quoted referring to head or foot or hand or state of dress or whatever rather than just a generic appearing to be human description if the remains were clearly identifiable.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

MacArthur was a loner. Northwoods was developed and endorsed by a government department and the Joint Chiefs, meaning it reflected the philosophy of the US government body corporate. Far more damning on the US system than one mentally unstable general.

Nah. How did he get to his position? The system allowed him bubble up because he was representative of it. He was endorsed all the way up the chain. He just happened to be a bit more flamboyant than his peers, but I bet they were and still are just as borderline insane.

 

[Azza]

Nah. How did he get to his position? The system allowed him bubble up because he was representative of it. He was endorsed all the way up the chain. He just happened to be a bit more flamboyant than his peers, but I bet they were and still are just as borderline insane.

He was a maverick that high command tried to sideline in WW2. Unfortunately (for them) he knew how to manipulate the media and had a lot of popular clout, so couldn't be ignored (which Curtin masterfully piggy-backed on to get resources for our war). He became more and more unstable during Korea and eventually had to be dimissed. Patton's another example, but at least he was a gun.

Neither made any headway politically. They weren't part of the bureaucratic system that produced the real powerbrokers.

 

[tigersnake]

Well, the 911 scenario had been modelled, so it shouldn't have been a complete surprise.

I used to have a toy T-rex I used to play with when I was a kid, I would make little towns of people then t-rex would squash them and whack them with his tail. I reckon I'd still be very shocked if T-rex appeared in my suburb and started squashing people.

Modelling notwithstanding, I reckon the US hierarchy were totally shocked. Remember Bush's face in that first press conference? You can't fake that.

 

[Rosy]

There's two newpaper reports saying residents, business people and police in areas miles from the original crash site saw crash debris including human remains. To me that's solid evidence that has yet to be confirmed or refuted. I asked you before why you think the commission never interviewed these people. Any ideas? Do you think it should have interviewed them given their accounts contradicted the OR?

Not sure how you are so confident it's "solid" evidence considering how a few other claims on here have panned out. Saw human remains is different to seeing what appeared to be human remains which is what I was referring to and you were clearly responding to. I wouldn't have a clue whether they were there or not but I'm certainly not going to assume or claim it as fact based on 2 newspaper reports. Newspaper reports aren't always accurate and editors and journos can have their own agendas.

I don't know if those people were interviewed or not. I don't know if the claims were investigated in any way. I wouldn't have a clue.

Anyone can make a convincing case for things anti and pro governments, God, life in outer space, reincarnation etc. I make no claims to knowing the facts on this topic but I've got to admit the lengths some go to to support the conspiracy claims, and use dodgy claims as evidence, is quite entertaining. It would take far more that anything said on this thread to convince me either way.

 

[tigertim]

I'm so confused now I can't even remember what the "human remains" was trying to prove...for either argument!

Btw, you can tell there's not much footy talk when this thread is the dominant one!

 

[Rosy]

Btw, you can tell there's not much footy talk when this thread is the dominant one!

It remind me of the religious discussion. When you don't have a clue either way it's fun to sit back and watch how others go about putting their cases across.

 

[tigersnake]

I'm so confused now I can't even remember what the "human remains" was trying to prove...for either argument!

Btw, you can tell there's not much footy talk when this thread is the dominant one!

at least we're over the off-season hump TT

 

[Disco08]

It remind me of the religious discussion. When you don't have a clue either way it's fun to sit back and watch how others go about putting their cases across.

It reminds me of some of the Christianity discussions too.

Not sure how you are so confident it's "solid" evidence considering how a few other claims on here have panned out. Saw human remains is different to seeing what appeared to be human remains which is what I was referring to and you were clearly responding to. I wouldn't have a clue whether they were there or not but I'm certainly not going to assume or claim it as fact based on 2 newspaper reports. Newspaper reports aren't always accurate and editors and journos can have their own agendas.

I don't know if those people were interviewed or not. I don't know if the claims were investigated in any way. I wouldn't have a clue.

Anyone can make a convincing case for things anti and pro governments, God, life in outer space, reincarnation etc. I make no claims to knowing the facts on this topic but I've got to admit the lengths some go to to support the conspiracy claims, and use dodgy claims as evidence, is quite entertaining. It would take far more that anything said on this thread to convince me either way.

No record of any interview exists in the OR. That's the point.

If you take the newpaper reports at face value they clearly contradict the OR. Whether you choose to do that or not is obviously up to you.

I'm glad you find it entertaining though. I find it saddening but each to their own. What puzzles me though is the reluctance of some people to even consider that the OR is wrong and their willingness to accept it blindly. It seems any suggestion of error or contradiction is met with derision and for the life of me I can't figure out why you guys would be such staunch supporters of it.

This rings true for me. I can't help but think that if Bush was in the know, he'd have had a planned reaction. Hustling off to look like he was taking action. Instead he looked like a stunned mullet.

If he wasn't in the know, why didn't he take up his post as one of the two men who could order the shootdown of a hijacked plane instead of sitting in a classroom where he was useless for nearly half an hour? If you wanted to let the plan succeed you couldn't plan a better reaction. His inactivity basically crippled the response as testified by those enacting it. Why is it he also claimed twice that he saw the footage of the first place hitting the tower when that footage hadn't been released yet? It all stinks if you ask me.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

He was a maverick that high command tried to sideline in WW2. Unfortunately (for them) he knew how to manipulate the media and had a lot of popular clout, so couldn't be ignored (which Curtin masterfully piggy-backed on to get resources for our war). He became more and more unstable during Korea and eventually had to be dimissed. Patton's another example, but at least he was a gun.

Neither made any headway politically. They weren't part of the bureaucratic system that produced the real powerbrokers.

Thanks for the military history lesson Az. It was a pretty flippant line TBO. Macarthur was a renowned nut so I thought I might get a laugh, god knows this thread needs one.

 

[Azza]

I used to have a toy T-rex I used to play with when I was a kid, I would make little towns of people then t-rex would squash them and whack them with his tail. I reckon I'd still be very shocked if T-rex appeared in my suburb and started squashing people.

Modelling notwithstanding, I reckon the US hierarchy were totally shocked. Remember Bush's face in that first press conference? You can't fake that.

Bush certainly. The military had less excuse than some dim-witted political hack.

 

[tigertim]

Thanks for the military history lesson Az. It was a pretty flippant line TBO. Macarthur was a renowned nut so I thought I might get a laugh, god knows this thread needs one.

indeed it does. An Islamic terrorist, George Bush and Disco walk into a bar.......

 

[Rosy]

I'm glad you find it entertaining though. I find it saddening but each to their own. What puzzles me though is the reluctance of some people to even consider that the OR is wrong and their willingness to accept it blindly. It seems any suggestion of error or contradiction is met with derision and for the life of me I can't figure out why you guys would be such staunch supporters of it.

Seeing those comments are in response to a quote of my post, and you're addressing me, I'll ask if you're referring to me by reluctance to consider the OR is wrong, willingness to accept it blindly and one of "you guys" who are such staunch supporters? If so in all instances they'd be inaccurate and ill-informed assumptions with no evidence to support them. Way off the mark.