9/11

[Liverpool]

Did you have a read of the site you got the second image from Livers?

No.
Tigers of Old asked for the pics, I merely provided.

I've stated my case before on this topic and have to say, I agree with Antman and Tiger74 (posts #196 and #197).
The conspiracy theory idea is so out there and fanciful and so intricate that it would be nigh on impossible to pull it off without something going wrong or someone spillling the beans or finding out the 'truth'.

Great storyline for a movie...maybe with Nicholas Cage as the heroic fireman, Bruce Willis as the NYPD cop, Meg Ryan as the crying widow, Will Smith as the fighter pilot, Jon Voight as the army general planning this dastardly plan behind the scenes, Bill Pullman as the President who doesn't know whats going on, Mel Gibson as the crackpot who stumbles across this conspiracy theory, and Julia Roberts as his love interest....

heck, I'd go and watch it and I don't believe this *smile* for one minute! :hihi

 

[Tigers of Old]

Re those photos above, in that CNN interview I put forward in post #178 the reporter suggests that those floors didn't collapse until 45 minutes after the impact.

Bear in mind this reporter had a 'close up inspection'.

I ask you again, any pics of the big hole seeing as you put forward one of the small one before the collapse of the building?

BTW I suppose you still believe there were WMD's in Iraq too? Don't believe everything the US gov tells you.

 

[Liverpool]

I ask you again, any pics of the big hole seeing as you put forward one of the small one before the collapse of the building?

Also this one (thought it might be too big to post so here is the link instead)

http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/pentagon-fire-width.jpg

 

[1eyedtiger]

I've stated my case before on this topic and have to say, I agree with Antman and Tiger74 (posts #196 and #197).
The conspiracy theory idea is so out there and fanciful and so intricate that it would be nigh on impossible to pull it off without something going wrong or someone spillling the beans or finding out the 'truth'.

A few people on here have discredited any conspiracy by using the logic that if the US government was in on it, then thousands of people would have to be in on it and someone would have leaked it out.

Using the same logic, would it not be unreasonable to assume that the US government knew beforehand of the attack since it would have been leaked from someone at some point in time? I also have no reason to believe that agencies such a the FBI and CIA needed to have any knowledge beforehand. This could have all been conducted by very few individuals. Government departments are hardly known for communicating with one another.

Another reason cited is the apparent complexity of the attack. Why? How hard is it to enrol in a course, pay the money and learn to fly? How hard is it to book a flight? I could probably do it myself if I wanted to (Not that I would :whistle). Seems to me to be an incredibly simple thing to do.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Yep I have seen all that livers and I am still not convinced in the slightest.

That vision is limited and a large plane came in at that trajectory where are the markings on the ground?
Where's the wreckage?

Why was the US gov so loathe to reveal more?

I don't believe the attack on the TT's was masterminded but the Pentagon one looks weird enough to me to at least ask questions.

 

[Disco08]

Livers, what do you think of the Transport Secretary's testimony to the commission stating Cheney was given updates of the plane's location when it was 50, 30 and 10 miles from the Pentagon?

 

[TigerForce]

What about Flight 93?

Disappeared like a ghost.

 

[Liverpool]

Well, at 9:32pm on the Comedy channel (Foxtel)....Cartman, Kyle, Stan, and Kenny are searching for the 'truth' behind 9/11....so maybe a few of you can get some more ideas from there? :hihi

 

[Disco08]

That's actually really funny, seen it a couple of times.

 

[Tiger74]

A few people on here have discredited any conspiracy by using the logic that if the US government was in on it, then thousands of people would have to be in on it and someone would have leaked it out.

Using the same logic, would it not be unreasonable to assume that the US government knew beforehand of the attack since it would have been leaked from someone at some point in time? I also have no reason to believe that agencies such a the FBI and CIA needed to have any knowledge beforehand. This could have all been conducted by very few individuals. Government departments are hardly known for communicating with one another.

Another reason cited is the apparent complexity of the attack. Why? How hard is it to enrol in a course, pay the money and learn to fly? How hard is it to book a flight? I could probably do it myself if I wanted to (Not that I would :whistle). Seems to me to be an incredibly simple thing to do.

The two have different jobs.

The terrorists have to stay in their little cell, get their resources, training, and information, and then strike. After that they don't give a toss about consequences, in fact they usually want to have a big banner up saying "we did it" for the propaganda value.

A govt conspiracy however has two additional jobs. Firstly they must source the right people prepared to betray the very people they have swore to protect. This is delicate, as if they go too far with the wrong person the caper will be up. The terrorists do it and fail. one cell falls apart. The Govt do it and fail, a Govt falls. In addition they are up against tougher profiled candidates. Defense personnel in critical areas often have to go through psych training and evaluations to ensure they are unlikely to succumb to these kind of advances.

Secondly the Govt has clean up. Unlike the terrorists, they cannot let anyone figure out how it went wrong. They have to stay underneath the radar in the planning stage, but during execution and clean up they are directly involved. This means interacting with people outside their plans, and making sure every aspect of the investigations (by everyone from the FBI, CIA and air crash investigators, to insurance companies and investigative reporters). This is where the numbers come in. To control all these people, all the evidence, and all the outcomes, takes people.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

It appears as if the role of Disco will be played by Eric Cartman. ;D

 

[1eyedtiger]

The two have different jobs.

The terrorists have to stay in their little cell, get their resources, training, and information, and then strike. After that they don't give a toss about consequences, in fact they usually want to have a big banner up saying "we did it" for the propaganda value.

A govt conspiracy however has two additional jobs. Firstly they must source the right people prepared to betray the very people they have swore to protect. This is delicate, as if they go too far with the wrong person the caper will be up. The terrorists do it and fail. one cell falls apart. The Govt do it and fail, a Govt falls. In addition they are up against tougher profiled candidates. Defense personnel in critical areas often have to go through psych training and evaluations to ensure they are unlikely to succumb to these kind of advances.

Secondly the Govt has clean up. Unlike the terrorists, they cannot let anyone figure out how it went wrong. They have to stay underneath the radar in the planning stage, but during execution and clean up they are directly involved. This means interacting with people outside their plans, and making sure every aspect of the investigations (by everyone from the FBI, CIA and air crash investigators, to insurance companies and investigative reporters). This is where the numbers come in. To control all these people, all the evidence, and all the outcomes, takes people.

Fair enough.

My theory is that the attacks happened as reported but that the terrorists were on the American payroll to do it. This is just a personal belief. It didn't come from any website or other media even if it has been raised.

This would enable a few individuals at the top of government to hire the terrorists to do the job. It is then simply a case of keeping quiet and let the terrorists do their job. No one else has to know. The CIA and FBI and all others could have been kept in the dark. In fact, it would have been in the best interests of those behind this (no matter who they are) for this to be the case. If a government was going to do this to it's own people, it wouldn't be a bad way of arranging things.

 

[Disco08]

It appears as if the role of Disco will be played by Eric Cartman. ;D

;D

Pantera, you're a big fan of peer review. What do you make of all the peer-reviewed architects, engineers, etc (like these guys) calling for the US government to re-open investigations into 9/11?

 

[evo]

Fair enough.

My theory is that the attacks happened as reported but that the terrorists were on the American payroll to do it. This is just a personal belief. It didn't come from any website or other media even if it has been raised.

This would enable a few individuals at the top of government to hire the terrorists to do the job. It is then simply a case of keeping quiet and let the terrorists do their job. No one else has to know. The CIA and FBI and all others could have been kept in the dark. In fact, it would have been in the best interests of those behind this (no matter who they are) for this to be the case. If a government was going to do this to it's own people, it wouldn't be a bad way of arranging things.

That at least has plausability.Horrendous if true, but at least it doesn't require entire skyscrapers wired for detonationation without anyone nopticing,missiles fired at the pentagon and dissapearing passengers to be explained.

 

[Liverpool]

That's actually really funny, seen it a couple of times.

It appears as if the role of Disco will be played by Eric Cartman. ;D

Well, the verdict is in!

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=AhKbxNvgt54

 

[TigerForce]

Fair enough.

My theory is that the attacks happened as reported but that the terrorists were on the American payroll to do it. This is just a personal belief. It didn't come from any website or other media even if it has been raised.

This would enable a few individuals at the top of government to hire the terrorists to do the job. It is then simply a case of keeping quiet and let the terrorists do their job. No one else has to know. The CIA and FBI and all others could have been kept in the dark. In fact, it would have been in the best interests of those behind this (no matter who they are) for this to be the case. If a government was going to do this to it's own people, it wouldn't be a bad way of arranging things.

Who's to say the CIA and FBI weren't involved? Corruptions still exist.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Who's to say the CIA and FBI weren't involved? Corruptions still exist.

I never said they weren't. I'm just demonstrating that if the US government was behind it, then it would have been possible for very few individuals to know about it. I agree with those who are against the conspiracy theories in that the more people involved, the less likely the theory.

 

[Liverpool]

I never said they weren't. I'm just demonstrating that if the US government was behind it, then it would have been possible for very few individuals to know about it. I agree with those who are against the conspiracy theories in that the more people involved, the less likely the theory.

Going by South Park tonight...apart from Cartman's theory on Kyle doing it....the REAL reason behind 9/11 was the the US Government did NOT do it, and in fact the Government is behind all the conspiracy webpages telling the world that they DID do it...so people think the American Government is actually smart enough and capable enough to pull of such a masterful plan...when in reality, they are not and a bunch of crazy Muslims did really do it to begin with.

In other words, there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy.... :hihi

Maybe we can have the conspiracy believers now find evidence to try and prove that the Government are (or are not) behind the 9/11 conspiracy webpages to make out they are actually smart enough to carry out such a devilish plan? ;D

 

[1eyedtiger]

Going by South Park tonight...apart from Cartman's theory on Kyle doing it....the REAL reason behind 9/11 was the the US Government did NOT do it, and in fact the Government is behind all the conspiracy webpages telling the world that they DID do it...so people think the American Government is actually smart enough and capable enough to pull of such a masterful plan...when in reality, they are not and a bunch of crazy Muslims did really do it to begin with.

In other words, there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy.... :hihi

Maybe we can have the conspiracy believers now find evidence to try and prove that the Government are (or are not) behind the 9/11 conspiracy webpages to make out they are actually smart enough to carry out such a devilish plan? ;D

Hopefully Rudd will censor any web pages designed to make the US government look smart. ;D

 

[TigerForce]

Going by South Park tonight...apart from Cartman's theory on Kyle doing it....the REAL reason behind 9/11 was the the US Government did NOT do it, and in fact the Government is behind all the conspiracy webpages telling the world that they DID do it...so people think the American Government is actually smart enough and capable enough to pull of such a masterful plan...when in reality, they are not and a bunch of crazy Muslims did really do it to begin with.

In other words, there is a conspiracy behind the conspiracy.... :hihi

Maybe we can have the conspiracy believers now find evidence to try and prove that the Government are (or are not) behind the 9/11 conspiracy webpages to make out they are actually smart enough to carry out such a devilish plan? ;D

Apparently, John Winston Howard was the head conspirator.