"2009 Official PRE Draft thread' | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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"2009 Official PRE Draft thread'

Dyer Disciple said:
That philosophy worked for Stafford didn't it? He didn't get anywhere near as much of the ball as Solomon and he could barely walk, but he certainly made opposition pay if they let their guard down and had them worrying about more than the ball. Every side needs a enforcer to let opposition know they won't accept any nonsense.

His inside 50's are excellent people, that is what the game is about these days, moving the ball on quickly and getting inside your 50. He was ranked equal 47th in the league for inside 50's as he is being used in a more attacking role these days, not so much as a forward but to get it down there. He also averages 11.5 kicks a game which is in the Top 100 of league players, so he's doing his bit for a bench player.

If you think I'll be putting Solomon on Davey you're madder than a cut snake. Need to have a bit more imagination peeps. ;D

I'll stand by his stats alone, compared to some other picks this deep. At least he is actually getting the ball. Guess the average of nearly 3 tackles a game was him tackling the goal posts then. ::) :hihi He's clearly not in his prime but will make a effective role player of the bench. Underrated player who's presence alone will make a lot of players taken around him worry about footsteps more than the ball.

Besides I had to take someone to counter the thuggery recruited by some coaches. :hihi

Hmmm no comment. Other than to say...nonsense! :p

The difference with stafford is that, as a ruckman, he merely had to jump in a contest and he had opposition ruckmen running at him.
At over 200cm, you could also sit him in the goal square.
Basically, he didn't have to run.

Solomon, at 188cm, is a different proposition. You can sit him in a FP if you wish. But you don't get much from a 188cm FP who can't run, besides a king-hit.

If it's the king-hit only that you want, then he's good enough as an emergency to do it on special occasions.
Can't do it week to week, cause he's going to spend most of his season suspended.
 
pharace said:
K H TD E% M T 1%
L. Harding 197 137 334 79% 100 50 43

D.Solomon 149 71 220 66% 68 36 30

U2Tigers said:
game set and match DD

Soliman is a shocker of a pick.

and your comeback reference Harding has been shown to be more of a shocker. :stopwar

Two can play that game...let's look at what is RELEVANT to this comp and look at recent form.

Game Averages in 2008

Harding...Kicks 8.9 Solomon 11.5
Harding...Handballs 6.2 Solomon 5.5 (Solomon kicks more, hence his inside 50's and tougher efficiency)
Harding...Disposals 15.1 Soloman 16.9
Harding...Marks 4.6 Solomon 5.4
Harding...Tackles 2.3 Solomon 2.8
Harding...Inside 50 2.7 Soloman 3.7

Solomon's best last season
21 disps (14 kicks 7 hballs), 8 marks, 5 tackles and a goal in Rd 14 4-pt loss to Essendon
23 disps (18 kicks 5 hballs) and 11 marks in Rd 13 8-pt loss to St Kilda at Telstra Dome
21 disps (16 kicks 5 hballs), 9 marks, 5 tackles and a goal in Rd 7 6-pt loss to Melbourne at the MCG
21 disps (15 kicks 6 hballs), 5 marks, 5 tackles and 2 goals in Rd 6 1-pt loss to Geelong at Subiaco

Harding's best last season

16 disps (12 kicks 4 hballs), 7 marks and 3 goals in Rd 20 51-pt win over Carlton
23 disps (14 kicks 9 hballs), 7 marks and 2 goals in Rd 7 33-pt loss to Adelaide
26 disps (13 kicks 13 hballs), 9 marks and 4 tackles in Rd 5 7-pt win over Collingwood

Solomon's bests were in loosing sides, not like a downhill skier like Harding (who played every game) and despite playing half the season he still played more better games.

Harding has done nothing since 2002/2003 seasons. Solomon can play all over the ground as proved in 2007 when he acheived his second highest disposals and best since 2004. Was Fremantles leading tackler in 07 with 108 tackles, which was equal 8th in the league.

I know which player I would prefer. ;D
 
Dyer Disciple said:
Two can play that game...let's look at what is RELEVANT to this comp and look at recent form.

Game Averages in 2008

Harding...Kicks 8.9 Solomon 11.5
Harding...Handballs 6.2 Solomon 5.5 (Solomon kicks more, hence his inside 50's and tougher efficiency)
Harding...Disposals 15.1 Soloman 16.9
Harding...Marks 4.6 Solomon 5.4
Harding...Tackles 2.3 Solomon 2.8
Harding...Inside 50 2.7 Soloman 3.7

Solomon's best last season
21 disps (14 kicks 7 hballs), 8 marks, 5 tackles and a goal in Rd 14 4-pt loss to Essendon
23 disps (18 kicks 5 hballs) and 11 marks in Rd 13 8-pt loss to St Kilda at Telstra Dome
21 disps (16 kicks 5 hballs), 9 marks, 5 tackles and a goal in Rd 7 6-pt loss to Melbourne at the MCG
21 disps (15 kicks 6 hballs), 5 marks, 5 tackles and 2 goals in Rd 6 1-pt loss to Geelong at Subiaco

Harding's best last season

16 disps (12 kicks 4 hballs), 7 marks and 3 goals in Rd 20 51-pt win over Carlton
23 disps (14 kicks 9 hballs), 7 marks and 2 goals in Rd 7 33-pt loss to Adelaide
26 disps (13 kicks 13 hballs), 9 marks and 4 tackles in Rd 5 7-pt win over Collingwood

Solomon's bests were in loosing sides, not like a downhill skier like Harding (who played every game) and despite playing half the season he still played more better games.

Harding has done nothing since 2002/2003 seasons. Solomon can play all over the ground as proved in 2007 when he acheived his second highest disposals and best since 2004. Was Fremantles leading tackler in 07 with 108 tackles, which was equal 8th in the league.

I know which player I would prefer. ;D

that was fun - you went to all that trouble.

:hihi :hihi :hihi

who can we taunt next.
 
pharace said:
As we approach the time when our teams are selected and the games begin (check with U2 on how this will operate), I was thinking it might be useful if we a resident commentator for the games - someone with a lot of obvious knowledge - so I sorry DD - but was thinking ToO might be a good person for this.

He certainly has a point of view on everything, is a prolific poster and could make for some interesting build ups to our games?

Any thoughts?

I don't think we should have anyone commentating or giving comments on games, too one dimensional and potentially byist on maybe even a subconcious level. No one person knows everything on every player either so can be quite misleading.

I think coaches should be the only ones commentating on games and it should be left to voters to decide and make up their own minds.


Need to streamline it as much as possible too and make it less work for everyone and easy for people to vote. It's a significant adjustment to the game, late, that would potentially change who you might have selected.

If I knew someone like ToO, Leysy, Phantom, Claw etc was going to be commentating on players/matches/match ups whatever I would be selecting different sides to what I would select quite possibly...too potentially influential (no pun intended).

TOT70 said:
Ok, I can finally complete my back six with Matthew Whelan from the Dees.

Go, Dees!

Looking back over the journey, I managed to get only one of my original back six. Such is life!

Handy pick up at this point, my back set is nothing like I wanted it to be either but you have to make sacrifices in a game like this to concentrate on certain areas (i concentrated on onballers and players who can rotate through midfield), my forwards are more potent than i had planned/intended though. Weird.
 
Figured you were off beavering away with your abacus there Dyer Dyer.

Not a lot in it once you break it back to averages. probably the most telling stat is that North (a finalist) repeatedly selected Harding, while Freo (heave ho - down we go) only occasionally select the brute that is Deano :p

Guess you can only play if you are selected to play ;D
 
U2Tigers said:
that was fun - you went to all that trouble.

:hihi :hihi :hihi

who can we taunt next.

No trouble ;D Just proving it's easy to pull out stats to look like anything.

I'm fighting a lone battle but he is one of my players and shall be defended! *stomps foot* :'(

Besides....I wanted to call my team..."The Hell Raisers" I can do that now with Cousins, Lovett and Solomon. :rofl

We even have our club anthem/song...

"Bad Boys, Bad boys....what ya gonna do? What ya gonna do when they come for you..." ;D

Got to have some personality in footy these days. If only Everitt was still around and Zantuck :rofl
 
Dyer Disciple said:
I think coaches should be the only ones commentating on games and it should be left to voters to decide and make up their own minds.

I think that's a valid post and I am happy to go with whatever you guys decide. 8)
Besides I'd never want to officially commentate on a team that had the plastic tough guy in it. ;D
 
pharace said:
Figured you were off beavering away with your abacus there Dyer Dyer.

Not a lot in it once you break it back to averages. probably the most telling stat is that North (a finalist) repeatedly selected Harding, while Freo (heave ho - down we go) only occasionally select the brute that is Deano :p

Guess you can only play if you are selected to play ;D

Nice try...Solomon has been selected to play in every game he's been available for. He played 20 last year and the only games he missed this year were due to suspension. ;)
 
Dyer Disciple said:
Nice try...Solomon has been selected to play in every game he's been available for. He played 20 in 07 and the only games he missed last year were due to suspension. ;)

Meant to read as that^^^^

Now where is Tiger 29, I'm getting savaged by a pack of rabid doggies here. ;D

His window is to 4.15pm then on to Tannerz (as Bobby's doing his picks at night).
 
Dyer Disciple said:
Handy pick up at this point, my back set is nothing like I wanted it to be either but you have to make sacrifices in a game like this to concentrate on certain areas (i concentrated on onballers and players who can rotate through midfield), my forwards are more potent than i had planned/intended though. Weird.

I've been determined to keep taking the best available player but I had to abandon that strategy after the first few rounds or I would've ended up with midgets.
 
As I won't be around for a few days, Oldie is quite welcome to "commentate" on my team until I get back, whatever that means?
 
Dyer Disciple said:
Harding has done nothing since 2002/2003 seasons. Solomon can play all over the ground as proved in 2007 when he acheived his second highest disposals and best since 2004. Was Fremantles leading tackler in 07 with 108 tackles, which was equal 8th in the league.

thanks DD now I'm glad I didn't get Harding ;D.

Dyer Disciple said:
Handy pick up at this point, my back set is nothing like I wanted it to be either but you have to make sacrifices in a game like this to concentrate on certain areas (i concentrated on onballers and players who can rotate through midfield), my forwards are more potent than i had planned/intended though. Weird.

Funny, I'm in a similar boat. My defence is the least like what I originally wanted.
 
TOT70 said:
I've been determined to keep taking the best available player but I had to abandon that strategy after the first few rounds or I would've ended up with midgets.

I took the spine first, unless someone jumped out like Kerr.

The reason I joined this thing was to see debates like the Harding V Soloman. That stuff is great.

Question, What pick shocked you the most in the entire process thus far?
 
SCOOP said:
Question, What pick shocked you the most in the entire process thus far?

I was second guessing my own fairly high pick of Marc Murphy, but then I went back and retraced my original thinking, considered he is a year younger than Lids and  he came second in the b&f.

Overall the early rush on rucks surprised me, I wouldn’t have had anyone outside Cox and maybe Otto in the first two rounds but Sandiland, Leuenberger and Hille all went in the top two rounds.
 
I reckon Luenberger went to early - For a structure game though I can see why Sandilands and Hille went early.

Now - I also see why Fev went early, I just couldn't have done it myself.

The one to last longer than he should of IMO - is Paul Chapman. 71 draft steal.
 
U2Tigers said:
I reckon Luenberger went to early - For a structure game though I can see why Sandilands and Hille went early.

There are two schools of thought on your first pick Sandi,
Either
a)Freo couldn’t win a clearance this year because the midfield sucked or
b) freo couldn’t win a clearance because Sandi couldn’t hit a barn door with the taps he dominated every week.

If you believe a is the case then he is a first round player
 
SCOOP said:
I took the spine first, unless someone jumped out like Kerr.

The reason I joined this thing was to see debates like the Harding V Soloman. That stuff is great.

Question, What pick shocked you the most in the entire process thus far?

Andrew MacLeod.

I thouught he was a top 30 player at worst. I kept letting him slide but couldn't believe he got as far down the order as he did.

I reckon Adelaide would not win more than 5 or 6 games a year without the drive that MacLeod and Johncock give them out of defence.
 
I've heard a few people in football (Schwatrz off the top of my head) persist to this day to not recognise Sandilands due to believing he doesn't understand rucking/tapping to advantage.

Freo's midfield does suck though, hard to point a finger. :hihi

I would have taken Sandilands high, no shame there.

Leunberger shocked the hell out of me. Agree with u2 Chapman was ridiculous, was watching him for a few rounds before he went, but admitably had to pass for structural reasons.

Col.W.Kurtz said:
Overall the early rush on rucks surprised me, I wouldn’t have had anyone outside Cox and maybe Otto in the first two rounds but Sandiland, Leuenberger and Hille all went in the top two rounds.

I think it's because there are not that many quality rucks. I was going to Pick Cox with my first pick if he was still there, missed him by one! Then I was tempted to pick Ottens.

After that I would have been seriously tempted to take Sandilands or Hille second round if there so could understand.

Bergermesiter shocked me, no doubt he would be good, but to pick a raw kid so high wa sa big call.
 
SCOOP said:
The reason I joined this thing was to see debates like the Harding V Soloman. That stuff is great.

Cheers Scoop, was a little worried was overdoing it. I carry on a lot and sledge, but the people who know me know I muck around a lot.

For me a big part of this is to learn inadvertently about players we might otherwise over look, see in a new (wether that be better or worse) perspective etc.

It's amazing how much our love or hatred of team colours can blind us sometimes.

A big part of this for me is to see how people rate importance in their structure, see how individuals rate specific talent, see debates and learn from them.

Makes for a lot more interesting reading to me than what Cousins had to drink with his sushi yesterday. 8)
 
To add to it - I think in a game like this to get a big man out the way is a huge worry you no longer have to face - until you need to get the back up - which is very very much later.

would have hated getting to round 5 or 6 and still searching for a ruck.

which brings me to Simmonds lasting thought he was a stael also.