Cousins wont be playing for the Tiges next year. The recent hospital incident has put paid to that. He has been very serviceable the last few games but I can't see us holding on to him for another year taking a younger player's spot, especially with the midfield talent we've started grooming. I wouldn't be against him having some off-field role though. A number of players have expressed the influence he has had on their own games.
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10,000,000 Cousins threads [Merged]
- Thread starter momentai
- Start date
Gut running is about pushing yourself mentally to the point of severe exhaustion.
Perhaps you have your own idea about what "gut running" is, and that is where we differ. Because to suggest he hasn't gut run all year is to critique his attitude, as he used to be famous for this ability. It's similar to how tackling is a mindset; the same applies when pushing yourself for that extra burst.
If a player runs himself to exhaustion, throws up, keeps on running, can't run anymore... then when the ball is nearby he runs hard just to lay a block for a teammate... that is gut running. I see him doing that regularly, so I am inclined to believe you have your own interpretation for what it is.
Perhaps you have your own idea about what "gut running" is, and that is where we differ. Because to suggest he hasn't gut run all year is to critique his attitude, as he used to be famous for this ability. It's similar to how tackling is a mindset; the same applies when pushing yourself for that extra burst.
If a player runs himself to exhaustion, throws up, keeps on running, can't run anymore... then when the ball is nearby he runs hard just to lay a block for a teammate... that is gut running. I see him doing that regularly, so I am inclined to believe you have your own interpretation for what it is.
Comparing kick to handball ratios is a bit silly because the entire AFLhas seen the ratio move towards handball in the past few years. Ben's not on his own with this stat.
GoodOne said:
What midfeld talent have we started grooming? I think we have a massive void of young mids. Right now the cupboard is bare. As young pure mids, we have Cotchin, Martin, maybe Edwards. Connors and Deledio look like becoming staples out of the back half so you cannot really include them. I would think this would be a reason of him staying on. Tough call but Ben is doing the right things on the ground.
SCOOP said:
Agreed. Would be priority numero uno in this years draft period i would guess! Cousins is an important player unless we want the likes ok King, White and Hislop running throught there. (Note i think King and White can play a role for the team but not as starting ball winning midfielders)
mb64 said:
Hatred?
Not at all monty. I just see a player whose time is up.
Others don't but to suggest I hate him is one of the most ridiculous things posted in this thread.
SCOOP said:
The midfield talent of our youngsters is our strength atm. Deledio, Cotchin, Martin, Connors, Collins, Edwards, Nason, Webberley all look very likely to play midfield roles in the future at some time or another, if they arent already. Add Contin and Hicks as likely prospects and our immediate future in terms of mids is pretty prospective, not only in quantity but also in quality of disposal skill with most of those. You can then add in Foley and Jackson, who are still young in playing career terms. I still am very concerned about key positions and rucks and your fleet footed smaller forwards and tight checking smaller backmen. I really don't see the need to keep Cousins on beyond this year in a playing capacity. And regardless the recent incident has stamped his papers in my view. It wasn't just an innocent prescription drug overdose from certain accounts.
jb03 said:
Nah jimbob I don't hate Cuz. My opinions are based purely on his football and in terms where I see the list.
At the end of last year I thought Ben was playing very good football and complimented him on numerous occassions.
I even floated he'd be worth a 2nd rounder. :hihi
I see Cousins right now in exactly the same position as I have seen many other of our recently retired veterans (Bowden, Brown, Simmonds & Johnson) all got very similar treatment from me and my opinions on their deterioration before their 'time was up' have been along the same lines. Cousins is not a special case.
mb64 said:
Yes. The past couple of weeks he's been one of our better players and we've been flogged.
He is not having much of an impact on our results & he's not playing as well this year as he was last year.
Next year he'll be less effective again.
We are still a long way from having an impact at the pointy end of the ladder. Certainly beyond Cousins.
There are better players going around than Ben who are retiring this year.
I just think it would be more beneficial to get games into young legs next season than to persist with old ones so that when we are ready to have a tilt those players will have match experience that Cousins is currently occupying.
This is hardly a revelation.
Ben Cousins on one leg with one hand tied behind his back even at the age of 32 is a better player than Bowden, Simmonds or Johnson.
Bowden was a cheap receiver who got massive stats by hibernating in the backline.
Simmonds was a trier just an average footballer punching above his weight playing as a ruckman.
Johnson was an unskilled turn over merchant who as captain could never inspire the players.
Cuz wins his own footy, sets up plays, shows players how to block for the ball carrier, is a general out on the field marshalling players around him and shows the players what gut running is all about.
We need his experience out there and as long as Cuz wants to play in 2011 theres no reason why he shouldnt get a 1 year contract.
Bowden was a cheap receiver who got massive stats by hibernating in the backline.
Simmonds was a trier just an average footballer punching above his weight playing as a ruckman.
Johnson was an unskilled turn over merchant who as captain could never inspire the players.
Cuz wins his own footy, sets up plays, shows players how to block for the ball carrier, is a general out on the field marshalling players around him and shows the players what gut running is all about.
We need his experience out there and as long as Cuz wants to play in 2011 theres no reason why he shouldnt get a 1 year contract.
GoodOne said:
Goodone, let's go through them. It looks a good list but not all are midfielders.
Deledio- Played his best footy off half back. I think that is beyond doubt. Has been tried as a onballer and hasn't had as much impact. Is a mjaor weapon coming off half back and should stay there.
Martin- Gun. We have one to build around. As good as Joel Selwood's first year.
Cotchin- Gun. We have two to build around. A class act who think is only showing half of waht he can do at the minute.
Connors- Just strated playing good footy at AFL level off half back. Think this is his role. We all know how important kicking coming out of the back 50 is. With Lids and Connors roaming there we have a massive springboard. Will stay there.
Collins- Seems to be a forward to me in the Robert Murphy mould. Far too slight to take the hustle and bustle of being a onballer. May get some small roles but not one to build around.
Edwards- Could be a player, still a long way to go. Give you that. Maybe three to build with. But Edwards is not a first stringer and is very slight.
Nason- A good two seasons from having a tank to play in the middle. Has rarely rolled through the middle this year. Would love to see how many times he has been in the centre sqaure ball up. Less then 20 me thinks. Is playing the half forward role very well, it's a key role with Dimma and he could grow into this.
Webberley- Very slight but could make it as a winger outside runner. Make that four to build around and two are questionable.
Contin- Is a longshot to make but shouldn't be written off. Is the right type to rookie but I wouldn't put him in the list.
Hicks- Small forward, pure and simple. Again, fills a massive need but isn't a onballer.
Foley is a question mark to come back from injury, Jackson isn't a first stringer but his size means he must be used in the middle to bash and crash.
So I think we are super light on in the midfield. Forget Cousins for a second, we have four long termers when we need to go through about 15 to get a solid core of 8. The midfield for me is by far our biggest concern. And because of that I would strongly consider Cousins for another year.
The difference between Cousins and our previous oldies is the natural leadership he provides.
GoodOne, while that is a promising list of players, half of them play on forward or back flanks. Two of them are rookies who haven't played a game. If you have to dig that deep to list 8-10 midfielders, then it suggests we don't have midfield depth.
IMO the way Benny can help us win a premiership is through the example he sets by training hard, constantly improving the youngsters' footy smarts, and by being an excellent leader. His form only matters if it drops. I don't care if he handballs too much - that's irrelevant for our next premiership. He just needs to justify selection by consistently being among our best 10 players. Most of the other benefits to keeping Cuz come from the list of intangibles he brings to our club.
Therefore it's pointless discussing his form in too much depth, as it's his professional, Brownlow Medal, premiership captain(*) personal qualities that could help steer these young cubs down the right path.
I can't tell you how much I love seeing a Tigers player bust a gun just to put on a half-block. If I didn't believe that Ben Cousins is an inspirational person to have at our footy club, then I wouldn't consider keeping him on next year even if he was our BOG every week (which he nearly is, coincidently). That is why I stand where I do, and I can understand why people have differing views on his future because it's hard for us supporters to judge a lot of those intangibles.
GoodOne, while that is a promising list of players, half of them play on forward or back flanks. Two of them are rookies who haven't played a game. If you have to dig that deep to list 8-10 midfielders, then it suggests we don't have midfield depth.
IMO the way Benny can help us win a premiership is through the example he sets by training hard, constantly improving the youngsters' footy smarts, and by being an excellent leader. His form only matters if it drops. I don't care if he handballs too much - that's irrelevant for our next premiership. He just needs to justify selection by consistently being among our best 10 players. Most of the other benefits to keeping Cuz come from the list of intangibles he brings to our club.
Therefore it's pointless discussing his form in too much depth, as it's his professional, Brownlow Medal, premiership captain(*) personal qualities that could help steer these young cubs down the right path.
I can't tell you how much I love seeing a Tigers player bust a gun just to put on a half-block. If I didn't believe that Ben Cousins is an inspirational person to have at our footy club, then I wouldn't consider keeping him on next year even if he was our BOG every week (which he nearly is, coincidently). That is why I stand where I do, and I can understand why people have differing views on his future because it's hard for us supporters to judge a lot of those intangibles.
zgod said:
Ben's attitude and work ethic helped him win the Brownlow and premiership.
Is he doing a good job teaching these good habits? The fact we're even considering giving a contract to a 33yo suggests the club see a lot of value in having him around. The fact Cuz has a successful history is surely relevant.
The club is in a good position to weigh everything up. At the very least he has been a largely successful pickup by the club and even if he does retire this year, he has made a good impression at our club.
I have enjoyed Bens time at club Rockstar but like I said earlier it would be a shame for the game to pass him by like it is starting to already.rockstar_tiger said:
I cannot see a reason for Ben to play on next year. We are not likely to be pushing for the finals and even if we were would his body handle an extended season including fast dry weather finals football? Why not offer him a mentoring role at the club and let him go out in decent form not an injury riddled veteran struggling to get a kick. I have no doubt his insights into the game would be invaluable to our young cubs in the coming golden age.
As for mentioning his history I alluded to it because some people see him as what he was and not what he is now. I just wish we afforded this kind of respect to some of our own tiger veterans.
rockstar_tiger said:
Yes correct, half do play on the forward or back flanks at the moment. For a number of reasons. One, is many players play in those roles as they are developing. This does not mean they are not midfield material in the future. My comments on these particular players is based on seeing things that show, with continued improvement and experience that they will potentially become important midfield players. And yes two are rookies who havent played a game. But I thought we were talking about future potential players, not necessarily those that have already made it and I have seen enough from both Hicks and Contin to be mildly excited about their future prospects. Of course no guarantees. Secondly, many of the best flankers in the league can easily play very well in the midfield as well. Pigeon-holing someone as a forward or back flanker just because that's where they playing now is a little short-sighted. Dane Swan is a perfect example of someone who played alot of his early games in the backline. Chapman plays predominantly forward but has played some blinders with time in the midfield. There are many others that fit the same bill (not necessary the quality of these two particular players). The game is very different today. A midfield consists of rotating your players regularly. Sometimes that rotation is through the forward line or backline depending on needs and/or status of the play. Our focus should (and I believe is) be on growing players so that they can play a variety of positions, afterall the game is now about making space and running. Very few players today make it in any of the smaller height positions unless they have many of the attributes required of a midfielder.
Maybe we should go back 3 and 4 years ago and compare our midfield potential then to now. I am surprised that some cannot see that our midfield potential is very strong, certainly alot stronger than many other clubs, and think that our midfield needs attention more than other areas. Of course we need to build on the midfield in future drafts with top ups as not all players mentioned will make it, but the greater part of our recruiting in the future needs to be on our key player areas and our stoppers. There is not enough depth to cover failures in those areas.
