Woo Denial

[evo]

The difference between religious experiences and ghost stories are that generally religious experience occurs in one's mind, whereas most ghost stories are reportedly physical sightings. Not really the same thing at all IMO.

Ghosts have much the same ontological and epistemelogical problems as a creator God has.

For a start no-one seems willing to properly define what a ghost IS. Very few people even ask "what is the nature of this thing we are trying to detect or communicate with?" That should be the first question. In that way you can examine if it is even possible.

--If it is indeed a 'spirit' then it is not physical,'of matter'and as such can't be ruled upon by science.Much the same as God.

--If it not a 'spirit' then one would think by now science would've been able to difinitively detect one.

Most peoples problem is they can't decide what they mean by the terms "to exist" and "real"

If "real" is meant physical in nature,then it is fair to say the usual conception of ghosts is likely *smile*.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

What is a 'spirit'?

 

[TigerForce]

Ghosts have much the same ontological and epistemelogical problems as a creator God has.

For a start no-one seems willing to properly define what a ghost IS. Very few people even ask "what is the nature of this thing we are trying to detect or communicate with?" That should be the first question. In that way you can examine if it is even possible.

--If it is indeed a 'spirit' then it is not physical,'of matter'and as such can't be ruled upon by science.Much the same as God.

--If it not a 'spirit' then one would think by now science would've been able to difinitively detect one.

Most peoples problem is they can't decide what they mean by the terms "to exist" and "real"

If "real" is meant physical in nature,then it is fair to say the usual conception of ghosts is likely *smile*.

Optical illusions are also ghosts (e.g. Shroud of Turin).

 

[Disco08]

If "real" is meant physical in nature,then it is fair to say the usual conception of ghosts is likely *smile*.

For what reason are these people that claim to have seen something that fits the traditional description of a ghost bullshitting though? What do they have to gain?

Wouldn't it be simple to see one documented case of a ghost sighting instead of always anecdotal evidence considering how often they occur?

Just to point out that I am not disputing that the people saw something...but how that leads to the existence of ghosts is another thing altogether.

Depends what you'll accept as 'documented'. Google 'ghost photos' or 'ghost videos' and I'm sure you'll get lots of bogus links. How do you know they're all fakes though?

Don't they have detectors or something that pick up on seismic energy or whatever?

So if say five people who are all fully aware of the limitations of their own perception see the same ghostly looking image for long enough to be convinced within themselves that what they saw wasn't a failure of their perception, what conclusion would you draw?

 

[evo]

Just to point out that I am not disputing that the people saw something...but how that leads to the existence of ghosts is another thing altogether.

Your problem is you think theres a one true objective reality 'out there' just waiting to be discovered. Typical scientist.

 

[evo]

For what reason are these people that claim to have seen something that fits the traditional description of a ghost bullsh!tting though? What do they have to gain?

I'm not accusing them of bullshitting necessarily.I'm sure many believe what they saw.

My point is the question : "what did they see?"

Depends what you'll accept as 'documented'. Google 'ghost photos' or 'ghost videos' and I'm sure you'll get lots of bogus links. How do you know they're all fakes though?

I didn't calim they are fakes.

They are "unexplained"

Don't they have detectors or something that pick up on seismic energy or whatever?

Dunno.

Seismic detectors measure movement in physical matter.The earth.

 

[Disco08]

lol, yeah I knew that wasn't the word I was looking for. You do see the ghost hunters running around with detectors of some sort though don't you?

I didn't calim they are fakes.

I didn't accuse you of claiming they were fakes.

 

[evo]

What is a 'spirit'?

Exactly.

 

[evo]

Optical illusions are also ghosts (e.g. Shroud of Turin).

No,they are optical illussions,by defintion.

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

Exactly.

I knew you were going to say that .

 

[evo]

lol, yeah I knew that wasn't the word I was looking for. You do see the ghost hunters running around with detectors of some sort though don't you?

I dunno what they are detecting for and with what aparratus.Thats my point.

Do they?

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

I'm not accusing them of bullsh!tting necessarily.I'm sure many believe what they saw.

My point is the question : "what did they see?"

What he said.

 

[Disco08]

What do you both think they saw?

 

[TigerForce]

No,they are optical illussions,by defintion.

Which are also known as 'ghosts' or 'ghostly figures' .

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

What do you both think they saw?

Wouldn't have a clue. I wasn't there and have no more information than, to paraphrase, "they saw a ghost".

How do you define "ghost" or "spirit"?

 

[Disco08]

I guess the most accurate definition is something like 'a transparent version of a human'.

You don't have a theory on what is causing all these people to see these transparent human figures other than it's being caused by flawed human perception?

 

[Panthera tigris FC]

I guess the most accurate definition is something like 'a transparent version of a human'.

You don't have a theory on what is causing all these people to see these transparent human figures other than it's being caused by flawed human perception?

Nope. I am still struggling to comprehend what they claim they saw.

People also see the Virgin Mary in all sorts of strange places. We have a tendency to see patterns....especially facial patterns, which might make us prone to such things?

 

[TigerForce]

Wouldn't have a clue. I wasn't there and have no more information than, to paraphrase, "they saw a ghost".

How do you define "ghost" or "spirit"?

ghost is a view of a dead person, whereas, spirit is just an intangible feeling of something near you.

 

[evo]

ghost is a view of a dead person, whereas, spirit is just an intangible feeling of something near you.

Emphasis on the word intangible.

 

[Disco08]

Nope. I am still struggling to comprehend what they claim they saw.

People also see the Virgin Mary in all sorts of strange places. We have a tendency to see patterns....especially facial patterns, which might make us prone to such things?

Yeah possibly, but most of the stories you hear are of people seeing full bodied transparent humans. People want to see the Virgin Mary because she's been burnt into their subconscious and is a way of validating their belief. What similar purpose would seeing a ghost serve?