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Which 2 part 2
- Thread starter mb64
- Start date
They are all on a par if you ask me. All of them had a hand in totally stuffing up this club. I possibly blame Wallet a little more than the others though as he spun us a big one and we fell for it ..... he should have known a lot better as he had seen the mess he was taking over, had time to plan for it and failed to fix it in his 5 years at the club. He is a total oxygen thief that one.
I'm thinking a four man Mt Rushmore style monument outside the new RFC facilities enscribed in 30ft letters - 'this will never happen again'
Right idea just change the Mt Rushmore concept a bit to four night carters cans with their faces engraved.maverick said:
Where does Casey fall in all this? If the Board, which was basically all Casey at the time, was directing the football department in a certain way then they should take responsibility as well. 3 parts not 2... eg... Board, Football Admin (Includes recruiting, fitness etc), Coach.
For mine pretty easy. Spud was a rookie coach in very difficult financial times who took us on when no one else would. He had a poor support structure, but gave an honest attempt with what he had.
Wallace started with what Frawley left, he and Miller called the shots, they were given free rein to do as they pleased, they knew better, they traded draft picks, they recruited poorly, but worst of all they should have known better.
And worst of all, when it all turned pear shaped they tried to blame Spud, the culture, the administrators, the factions, or anyone else they could deflect too,
Miller and Wallace by a country Mile for mine.
Wallace started with what Frawley left, he and Miller called the shots, they were given free rein to do as they pleased, they knew better, they traded draft picks, they recruited poorly, but worst of all they should have known better.
And worst of all, when it all turned pear shaped they tried to blame Spud, the culture, the administrators, the factions, or anyone else they could deflect too,
Miller and Wallace by a country Mile for mine.
look what miller is doing these days
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2qEiLOPCcY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com.au%2Fvideosearch%3Fq%3D2%2520car%2520salesmen%26oe%3Dutf-8%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF&feature=player_embedded#t=26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2qEiLOPCcY&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo.google.com.au%2Fvideosearch%3Fq%3D2%2520car%2520salesmen%26oe%3Dutf-8%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla%3Aen-GB%3Aofficial%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26um%3D1%26ie%3DUTF&feature=player_embedded#t=26
Agree.
You could argue that when Spud first took over, the drafting system was still not as methodical and predictable as it has been in the last 5 or so years. Plus our recruiting division (or lack of it should I say), made this process even more unreliable. Spud was an untried coach with little support, and above all, for all his shortcomings, he has accepted his share of the responsibility and admitted mistakes in both trading away draft picks for players that failed and list management.
TW on the other hand, constantly referred to drafting mistakes of Spuds era (he LOVED bringing up the lack of 22-25 year olds or whatever it was), yet trading, drafting, list management was just as bad under his tenure. This at a time when drafting was far more methodical, and overwhelmingly regarded as the only way to build up your list.
Then add Greg Miller's arrogant incompetence. He may have too many other roles (due to lack of finances) and as, at least initially, our sole recruiter, could be forgiven for not getting the most out of the draft. However, instead of working within his limitations and going for the "safe bet" picks, he was always trying to impress by picking out smokies with that "X factor". Hell, all he had to do was go on any one of the numerous internet forums with phantom drafts and just followed their order and we probably would have been better off. His biggest mistake was trying to constantly impress his negotiating prowess by always trying to land the big (and sometimes not so big) fish and in the process trading away our draft picks.
I guess above all this is Greg Miller's and especially TW's lack of acountability and acceptance of blame. All I've heard from TW since he got sacked was how it was everyone's fault but his. He was still harping on about contracts and the list he inherited from Spud five years later.
Spud, I have some respect for , TW none.
You could argue that when Spud first took over, the drafting system was still not as methodical and predictable as it has been in the last 5 or so years. Plus our recruiting division (or lack of it should I say), made this process even more unreliable. Spud was an untried coach with little support, and above all, for all his shortcomings, he has accepted his share of the responsibility and admitted mistakes in both trading away draft picks for players that failed and list management.
TW on the other hand, constantly referred to drafting mistakes of Spuds era (he LOVED bringing up the lack of 22-25 year olds or whatever it was), yet trading, drafting, list management was just as bad under his tenure. This at a time when drafting was far more methodical, and overwhelmingly regarded as the only way to build up your list.
Then add Greg Miller's arrogant incompetence. He may have too many other roles (due to lack of finances) and as, at least initially, our sole recruiter, could be forgiven for not getting the most out of the draft. However, instead of working within his limitations and going for the "safe bet" picks, he was always trying to impress by picking out smokies with that "X factor". Hell, all he had to do was go on any one of the numerous internet forums with phantom drafts and just followed their order and we probably would have been better off. His biggest mistake was trying to constantly impress his negotiating prowess by always trying to land the big (and sometimes not so big) fish and in the process trading away our draft picks.
I guess above all this is Greg Miller's and especially TW's lack of acountability and acceptance of blame. All I've heard from TW since he got sacked was how it was everyone's fault but his. He was still harping on about contracts and the list he inherited from Spud five years later.
Spud, I have some respect for , TW none.
I am not so sure the list DH inherited is that much better than the one TW inherited.
That sh!ts me to tears. Things like keeping Shulz for 8 years, Mark Graham, Kent Kingsley, re-signing tivendale for about 5 more years than he deserved etc etc- not making the though decisions to put us in a better position- its going to be a long road from here!
Not sure either of them did a great job but i think TW knew the enormity of the job and still didn't progress us on the right path - nothing but distain from me. Time heals a little bit for spud.
TO spuds credit - he has never bad mouthed us. I respect that.
That sh!ts me to tears. Things like keeping Shulz for 8 years, Mark Graham, Kent Kingsley, re-signing tivendale for about 5 more years than he deserved etc etc- not making the though decisions to put us in a better position- its going to be a long road from here!
Not sure either of them did a great job but i think TW knew the enormity of the job and still didn't progress us on the right path - nothing but distain from me. Time heals a little bit for spud.
TO spuds credit - he has never bad mouthed us. I respect that.
S.D. said:
This is one that has always fascinated me. Watch the carnival games and read a few informed posters views and you would light years ahead of what the RFC did.
hutstar said:
Absolutely agree. Frawley was an idiot - and he spun just as much BS as Wallace - just didn't realise he was doing it. And my long gone grandmother could've coached that 2001 side to the Finals.
Wallace.
Yes, took over a lopsided list and he told everyone about it and kept telling us his job was to rebuild the list, etc, etc...
But Wallace then turns around and picks up half baked players in their 30's. He never made the tough decisions in trading our older players for more picks. Wallace was more concerned about his win/loss ratio then actual rebuilding the list.
We are now excatly were we should have been 4-5 years ago. He never brought in a program to improve th skill level, get bigger bodies, fast track our youth. The guy done sweet f all
Wallace came for the money and left.
Yes, took over a lopsided list and he told everyone about it and kept telling us his job was to rebuild the list, etc, etc...
But Wallace then turns around and picks up half baked players in their 30's. He never made the tough decisions in trading our older players for more picks. Wallace was more concerned about his win/loss ratio then actual rebuilding the list.
We are now excatly were we should have been 4-5 years ago. He never brought in a program to improve th skill level, get bigger bodies, fast track our youth. The guy done sweet f all
Wallace came for the money and left.
hutstar said:
Absoloutely agree. On the last part, Terry certainly made some mistakes he shouldn't have, given prior experiences and his self denoted status as a top line coach. However.
Danny inherited a list that w able to make a prelim in his second year at the helm. This team making the finals had nothing to do with Danny's recruiting etc. It was an inherited team. The team that Danny built, went on to win a wooden spoon and 4 games in 2004. A massive drop from where they were when he first took over. From memory, wasn't he also without Richo for the vast majority of 2000 as well and we fell into 9th after losing a string of games against interstate sides in Melbourne by 1-2 goals or less? (Freo, Adelaide & Sydney all @ Etihad)
Terry, took over a wooden spoon side, full of old duds, and very little in the way of kids. He left, with a team with 6 over 30's, and a majority of the list on the youngish side. Still a wooden side however. The club certainly is no worse off now than it was at the end of 2004.
So therefore, Fraudley gets my vote.
