what should come first. | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

what should come first.

I'm am so dissapointed in man manipulating man under the guise of faith.

Religions have and still are just a way for some to have power over others and thus hearding the lesser people into a situation where those with power maintain control. Anywhere else it would be called a dictatorship - maybe in some areas of the world it could be argued that it is a benevolent dictatorship but in many other areas it is far from benevolent.

It is not just the middle east or the sub-continent either - take a look at the Bible Belt in the US - the CoE in England - Catholicism around the world.

Man manuipulating man.....some could say the laws of the land can do this too - but I would always prefer a democratically elected Government under a well written constitution than the dogma and tenents of any religion.

The law must and always come first - conditional upon those laws not being written around the dogma and tenents of a religion - it must see all men/women as equal - and it must promote an environment where all can pursue happiness and Richmond can win the flag.
 
Only just saw this thread. My take is a much the same as many others with an expansion. In Australia, of course the laws come first. That is because they are fair laws. However, if you live in a country that persectues you, throws you in jail, tortures you or even kills you for practicing your beliefs, then I think that you can justifiably fight against or break those laws, albeit whilst trying to be undetected. That goes for any religion too. Everyone should be free to practice their beliefs, regardless of where they live, as long as they are not harmful to others.
 
RemoteTiger said:
I'm am so dissapointed in man manipulating man under the guise of faith.

Religions have and still are just a way for some to have power over others and thus hearding the lesser people into a situation where those with power maintain control. Anywhere else it would be called a dictatorship - maybe in some areas of the world it could be argued that it is a benevolent dictatorship but in many other areas it is far from benevolent.

It is not just the middle east or the sub-continent either - take a look at the Bible Belt in the US - the CoE in England - Catholicism around the world.

Man manuipulating man.....some could say the laws of the land can do this too - but I would always prefer a democratically elected Government under a well written constitution than the dogma and tenents of any religion.

The law must and always come first - conditional upon those laws not being written around the dogma and tenents of a religion - it must see all men/women as equal - and it must promote an environment where all can pursue happiness and Richmond can win the flag.
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Well spoken, you've got my vote RT. ;)
 
RemoteTiger said:
I'm am so dissapointed in man manipulating man under the guise of faith.

Religions have and still are just a way for some to have power over others and thus hearding the lesser people into a situation where those with power maintain control. Anywhere else it would be called a dictatorship - maybe in some areas of the world it could be argued that it is a benevolent dictatorship but in many other areas it is far from benevolent.

It is not just the middle east or the sub-continent either - take a look at the Bible Belt in the US - the CoE in England - Catholicism around the world.

Man manuipulating man.....some could say the laws of the land can do this too - but I would always prefer a democratically elected Government under a well written constitution than the dogma and tenents of any religion.

The law must and always come first - conditional upon those laws not being written around the dogma and tenents of a religion - it must see all men/women as equal - and it must promote an environment where all can pursue happiness and Richmond can win the flag.
Click to expand...

Given that you feel that way about religion RT, can I ask if you believe in God? The reason I ask is that I noticed that on the Hartfelt thread you made the following comment -

RemoteTiger said:
Thoughts and prayers are with you Hartfelt.........RT
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- and I was unsure if that was a throwaway line, or if you genuinely believe in God and are praying to Him, or if you are a non believer and, if so, why you would use that particular phrase or are you a non-believer who is praying to a God that you are not sure exists?
 
jayfox said:
Given that you feel that way about religion RT, can I ask if you believe in God? The reason I ask is that I noticed that on the Hartfelt thread you made the following comment -

- and I was unsure if that was a throwaway line, or if you genuinely believe in God and are praying to Him, or if you are a non believer and, if so, why you would use that particular phrase or are you a non-believer who is praying to a God that you are not sure exists?
Click to expand...

Firstly - where did I say I don't believe in God?

Next up - my God is quiet possibly different to your God!

And Lastly - Let us not get faith in God mixed up with believing in a religion. During my 37th year I was personally going through a particularly rough episode - I asked a man of the cloth what the difference is between Religion and Spirituality. As a man of the cloth I expected him to trot out the usual Bible quotes - but - he did not - he said

"Religion is man made and its dogma and tenents are man made, passed down through generations and possibly the truth may have been changed a little but the fundamentals are usually the same - whereas - spirituality comes from within - you have been brought up in a christian faith and you know right from wrong the Ten Commandments but the true feeling that comes from your heart and soul that you know is right and gives you peace is true spirituality."

He smiled and then added " Religious people pray they won't go to hell. Spiritual people have been there and pray they won't go back!"

The next morning at breakfast I asked my father who influenced my life greatly, if he believed in God, " Son you know what I did during World War II - a mid upper gunner on a Halifax Bomber over Germany. Well on one mission after dropping our load on Berlin we turned and were heading home. Just as we could see the English channel a couple of German fighters came out of the rising sun at our kite. My job was to radio the Captain and tell him where the enemy planes were - he would then take evasive action and we would shoot at the fighter plane as it roared passed. On this occassion the Belly Gunner and I radioed the Captain at the same time - there was a fighter underneath us and fighter coming straight at me as I sat on top of our bomber. The 2 fighters had us in a sissor trap. The Captain took evasive action from the fighter underneath - this left me exposed to the fighter up top - to this day I can see his machine guns opening fire - I went to duck left but I felt a hand on my right shoulder pull me right - so I went that way. It was all over in seconds and the crackling of the Captains voice in my ear phones brought me to my senses. He asked for a damage report - I looked around my gun turrent and saw down to my left where the fighter's bullets had punctured the glass and walls of my turrent - if I had of gone left you and I would not be sitting here eating breakfast - it was a hand that pulled me right. You ask me if I believe in God - Son I have felt the hand of God".

My father only went to church for weddings, christenings or funerals - he believed he did not need a religious man to act as a go between - between him and God.

My answer is yes I believe in God - but I am extremely skeptical about religions.

I do not wish to get into a discussion or argument over what I believe and what you believe. Let us leave it at - If what you are doing for your faith is working for you then do it, I am happy for you - rest assured what I am doing for my faith is working for me.

Take care and may your God be with you........RT
 
RemoteTiger said:
Firstly - where did I say I don't believe in God?

Next up - my God is quiet possibly different to your God!

And Lastly - Let us not get faith in God mixed up with believing in a religion. During my 37th year I was personally going through a particularly rough episode - I asked a man of the cloth what the difference is between Religion and Spirituality. As a man of the cloth I expected him to trot out the usual Bible quotes - but - he did not - he said

"Religion is man made and its dogma and tenents are man made, passed down through generations and possibly the truth may have been changed a little but the fundamentals are usually the same - whereas - spirituality comes from within - you have been brought up in a christian faith and you know right from wrong the Ten Commandments but the true feeling that comes from your heart and soul that you know is right and gives you peace is true spirituality."

He smiled and then added " Religious people pray they won't go to hell. Spiritual people have been there and pray they won't go back!"

The next morning at breakfast I asked my father who influenced my life greatly, if he believed in God, " Son you know what I did during World War II - a mid upper gunner on a Halifax Bomber over Germany. Well on one mission after dropping our load on Berlin we turned and were heading home. Just as we could see the English channel a couple of German fighters came out of the rising sun at our kite. My job was to radio the Captain and tell him where the enemy planes were - he would then take evasive action and we would shoot at the fighter plane as it roared passed. On this occassion the Belly Gunner and I radioed the Captain at the same time - there was a fighter underneath us and fighter coming straight at me as I sat on top of our bomber. The 2 fighters had us in a sissor trap. The Captain took evasive action from the fighter underneath - this left me exposed to the fighter up top - to this day I can see his machine guns opening fire - I went to duck left but I felt a hand on my right shoulder pull me right - so I went that way. It was all over in seconds and the crackling of the Captains voice in my ear phones brought me to my senses. He asked for a damage report - I looked around my gun turrent and saw down to my left where the fighter's bullets had punctured the glass and walls of my turrent - if I had of gone left you and I would not be sitting here eating breakfast - it was a hand that pulled me right. You ask me if I believe in God - Son I have felt the hand of God".

My father only went to church for weddings, christenings or funerals - he believed he did not need a religious man to act as a go between - between him and God.

My answer is yes I believe in God - but I am extremely skeptical about religions.

I do not wish to get into a discussion or argument over what I believe and what you believe. Let us leave it at - If what you are doing for your faith is working for you then do it, I am happy for you - rest assured what I am doing for my faith is working for me.

Take care and may your God be with you........RT
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Well written RT. I believe many would concur with those views also.
Tigers of Old said:
Powerful post Remote. I can see why your Father had such a strong influence over you.
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Agreed ToOheys. How fortunate you were RT
 
jayfox said:
and I was unsure if that was a throwaway line, or if you genuinely believe in God and are praying to Him, or if you are a non believer and, if so, why you would use that particular phrase or are you a non-believer who is praying to a God that you are not sure exists?
Click to expand...

It's a bit below the belt to question whether a sincere comment on such a heartbreaking thread is a throwaway line. Everyone should be free to pass on their condolences without being interrogated. Praying isn't exclusive to a christian god and it doesn't necessarily have to be addressed to a god of any kind.  One definition is simply an earnest request.

Great posts Remote.  :clapping
 
RemoteTiger said:
Firstly - where did I say I don't believe in God?

Next up - my God is quiet possibly different to your God!

And Lastly - Let us not get faith in God mixed up with believing in a religion. During my 37th year I was personally going through a particularly rough episode - I asked a man of the cloth what the difference is between Religion and Spirituality. As a man of the cloth I expected him to trot out the usual Bible quotes - but - he did not - he said

"Religion is man made and its dogma and tenents are man made, passed down through generations and possibly the truth may have been changed a little but the fundamentals are usually the same - whereas - spirituality comes from within - you have been brought up in a christian faith and you know right from wrong the Ten Commandments but the true feeling that comes from your heart and soul that you know is right and gives you peace is true spirituality."

He smiled and then added " Religious people pray they won't go to hell. Spiritual people have been there and pray they won't go back!"

The next morning at breakfast I asked my father who influenced my life greatly, if he believed in God, " Son you know what I did during World War II - a mid upper gunner on a Halifax Bomber over Germany. Well on one mission after dropping our load on Berlin we turned and were heading home. Just as we could see the English channel a couple of German fighters came out of the rising sun at our kite. My job was to radio the Captain and tell him where the enemy planes were - he would then take evasive action and we would shoot at the fighter plane as it roared passed. On this occassion the Belly Gunner and I radioed the Captain at the same time - there was a fighter underneath us and fighter coming straight at me as I sat on top of our bomber. The 2 fighters had us in a sissor trap. The Captain took evasive action from the fighter underneath - this left me exposed to the fighter up top - to this day I can see his machine guns opening fire - I went to duck left but I felt a hand on my right shoulder pull me right - so I went that way. It was all over in seconds and the crackling of the Captains voice in my ear phones brought me to my senses. He asked for a damage report - I looked around my gun turrent and saw down to my left where the fighter's bullets had punctured the glass and walls of my turrent - if I had of gone left you and I would not be sitting here eating breakfast - it was a hand that pulled me right. You ask me if I believe in God - Son I have felt the hand of God".

My father only went to church for weddings, christenings or funerals - he believed he did not need a religious man to act as a go between - between him and God.

My answer is yes I believe in God - but I am extremely skeptical about religions.

I do not wish to get into a discussion or argument over what I believe and what you believe. Let us leave it at - If what you are doing for your faith is working for you then do it, I am happy for you - rest assured what I am doing for my faith is working for me.

Take care and may your God be with you........RT
Click to expand...

Great post RT. Really enjoyed the story! Is your Dad still around?

On the OP, Christians are mandated to follow the laws of the land, and even go beyond them in terms of service, but disobey if the law contravenes the laws of God eg if assembling for church became illegal Christians would still be commanded to assemble.
 
Today's a great example of religion driving the law. No takeaway alcohol sales permitted in NSW today.
 
No joking at all jimbob. The pubs in my town even had signs made up saying don't ask for takeaways today. Didn't go down well after 8 hours on a hot kitchen I can tell ya.

See this google search for proof of bloody Christians and their myth pushing themselves and their 'morality' on the innocent. ;D
 
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