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What can we learn from the Butts and Brando departures
- Thread starter TigerFlag2017
- Start date
Its the return for them which i loath. With some active sales & ra-ra - Butler should have been able to yield a much by better return. I also think the compo pick situation for Ellis was rubbish. How is there a situation where miscalculations happen on the pick? The Afl should be able to just flat out tell u x is the return. That is probably less a error on us than a deliberately vague ruling by AFL to control equality, by essentially, not providing equality.
Apparently the AFL uses an average of players salaries to work out the level of compo. So just to make you loathe it even further the average player salary for 2020 will drop and other teams will get an advantage with better compo picks this year
I think they use a percentage, e.g. top X % = first round, X to Y % = second round etc.
The estimate of $600K around Brando getting us a first-rounder were based on these percentages. Nobody actually knows the figures except the AFL, although the player managers have a fair idea of what players are on and speak to the media.
It used to be that clubs could ask for an indication from the AFL about what tier of compo they would receive if they declined to match a rival contract offer, and there was some suggestion of collusion between Richmond and Hawthorn involving Vickery to get the best outcome for us. Doesn't appear to have happened with Ellis, or perhaps the AFL diddled us with a misleading indication.
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I can't imagine a situation with the AFL might diddle us with a misleading indication, they are too professional and well-run to do that..........
Not sure of the particulars but I don't think they can actually say "contract X will net you first-round compo", otherwise there will be collusion. Think they can only indicate "it's close" etc. I might've read also that the club only has one opportunity to enquire. The process seems pretty weird - they might be better off to not provide any feedback at all - but I guess they want the clubs to be as happy with player movement as possible to keep the AFLPA onside.
Clearly the club was expecting a first-rounder as Gale queried the decision.
Apparently compensation is based on a secret formula known only to the AFL which they can then override at their discretion. Wouldn’t surprise me at all if that was the case with Ellis.
Butler was not in our best 22 for most of the year - therefore as a club you shouldn’t hold out for ransom $ so we got what we got and can’t really complain.
Brando‘s a bit different that even though he was Marvin best 22 for some of last year he still made the premiership 22and played well that game. The AFL lack of transparency was telling as the tigers weren’t the only one surprised with the low compo pick we received - till the AFL grow some and operate like a normal transparent charity organis that they are, they will always and rightfully come under attack.
It won’t be the last time they shaft teams like us.
Brando‘s a bit different that even though he was Marvin best 22 for some of last year he still made the premiership 22and played well that game. The AFL lack of transparency was telling as the tigers weren’t the only one surprised with the low compo pick we received - till the AFL grow some and operate like a normal transparent charity organis that they are, they will always and rightfully come under attack.
It won’t be the last time they shaft teams like us.
Potentially could get a game at Adelaide, North, Freo and I dare say Melbourne right now. Even Hawks and Swans. A lot of spuds out there!
Interesting article here about the Vickery to Hawthorn compo pick - alleged that we colluded with Hawthorn to get the second round pick for a two year 500k contract, some watchers believed it would really be over three years. As it turned out Ty only played 6 games in 2017 for Hawthorn before he retired.
Controversy continues to surround Vickery's Hawks contract | Sporting News Australia
Point being we made good bank getting a second round compo pick.
No one could have predicted Butler's return to form - certainly not me. Good on him. Before the foot injury in 2018, I thought he was on track to be a star but he struggled with us ever since. Clearly that type of injury takes a long time to get over. Same thing is happening with Ross now too.
If Butler had stayed, one of the other small forwards would have had to be traded. The Rioli name meant Dan was kept, but he needs to lift big time. Time will tell.
Ellis was a footy business decision, for him and for us. Regardless of the Rance situation (which should provide some salary cap room) and even though we have genuinely missed Ellis' gut running, we can find alternatives for that position. McIntosh is now providing it anyway. We now need a big bodied midfielder and re-address contested ball and clearances. If Collier-Dawkins isn't that player and Ross doesn't come on/recover from the injury, we'll need to trade for one to match up with this group's 2-3 window.
If Butler had stayed, one of the other small forwards would have had to be traded. The Rioli name meant Dan was kept, but he needs to lift big time. Time will tell.
Ellis was a footy business decision, for him and for us. Regardless of the Rance situation (which should provide some salary cap room) and even though we have genuinely missed Ellis' gut running, we can find alternatives for that position. McIntosh is now providing it anyway. We now need a big bodied midfielder and re-address contested ball and clearances. If Collier-Dawkins isn't that player and Ross doesn't come on/recover from the injury, we'll need to trade for one to match up with this group's 2-3 window.
Butler was struggling and looked like a dear in headlights in his limited games last year. Remember yelling at the TV for Butler to wake the *smile* up on a few occassions. Would just run into tackles, wouldn't bend down to pick up the ball and do pokey kicks off the side of the boot. Looked 10 times less interested than rioli does this year
Also we had george, rioli and shai outperforming him in the forward line and had kids in Higgins and Stack fighting to get in. It made sense that he wanted out and that we helped him get to the Saints.
Also we had george, rioli and shai outperforming him in the forward line and had kids in Higgins and Stack fighting to get in. It made sense that he wanted out and that we helped him get to the Saints.
I think it is time to be bold as we have a great deal of talent on the list. All the rookies should be elevated to the senior list. Aarts, Baker chol, egg, Pickett stack. places on the list are at a premium.
I would knock on Adelaide door and offer CCJ, Graham And our first pick (18) for pick number 1 This is a tough trade because CCJ could be a star but we have soldo and chol that are performing well and also improving. graham has also been good and what he did in the preliminary final was outstanding
however to get an elite talent (top 5 pick) and free spots on the list this could be the way to go. 2 for 1 deal
I would knock on Adelaide door and offer CCJ, Graham And our first pick (18) for pick number 1 This is a tough trade because CCJ could be a star but we have soldo and chol that are performing well and also improving. graham has also been good and what he did in the preliminary final was outstanding
however to get an elite talent (top 5 pick) and free spots on the list this could be the way to go. 2 for 1 deal
I totally agree. Butler was done with us, and quite frankly, I can see why he is travelling well at a team like the Saints where defensive pressure is not a critical ingredient of the way they go about it. That is not being disrespctful, as I will always be grateful to him being a member of our 2017 drought breaking flag side.
But Dan just did not fit our game plan last year, fullstop, and I don't think he figured in this years consideration that highly. As you say, we had a lot of other options.
Part of wanting to be a destination club is to at least give the players in other clubs the impression that we are a club that looks after its guys.
We helped Butler to get to where he wanted to go. It cost us nothing but might help us recruit players we want in the future.
Sure, you can say we gave him away for nothing, especially on his apparent form this season. But the reality is I doubt we would ever see the player he is now, and he has gone to a club whose game plan suits him as a player. We surely recruit players to our club on the same sort of basis.
I actually see it as a win all round.
Maybe, but this years No.1 pick is a little hard to judge because of the lack of footy being played across the board. Hard to really judge even the top prospects and what they might really deliver next year in the AFL and into the future.
Also, CCJ is one of the few emerging tall forwards on our list. With Jack coming to the end of an illustrious career, we need to be mindful of losing a tall forward, even one that probably doesn't offer us the diversity that the Lynch/Riewoldt combination does. Lynch and CCJ seem to be very similar players, so unless we think we can parlay CCJ into a more mobile tall forward, I'd stick with what we have.
So I reckon making this trade would certainly be bold!
will CCJ want to wait in the wings for another year or two until Reinhold the retires though. CCJ will be crying out for game time so will be seeking opportunity. This is no knock on CCJ as he could possibly be the best ruck we have.
