What can we learn from the Butts and Brando departures | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
  • IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.

What can we learn from the Butts and Brando departures

TigerFlag2017

Tiger Legend
May 16, 2007
7,144
4,894
It's been a long time since we have had to watch former tiger players do well at other clubs. There was a solid couple of years of Matt White running around at Port (which we received nothing), Jay Schulz emerged into a reliable forward at Port (we got Farmer, anything else?), and Ottens blossomed at Geelong - albeit he was never quite the same player after injury.

I think we are all very happy to see premiership heroes Towner, Butler and Brando find new homes and playing senior footy (Sam Lloyd also to some extent). Personally, I respect the clubs attitude towards looking after the players and finding homes for them rather than risk eventual delisting. All slightly different circumstances, but ultimately we got nothing for all 3 players with the FA compo a farce. What is hurting obviously is Dan Butler absolutely starring, and I think Dimma last week represented all of us in expressing his mixed emotions at seeing him do so well for St Kilda.

Another complicating factor being that we our list is one marquee player down with $1m missing from our salary cap due to Rance's sudden retirement. All-in-all, it is somewhat remarkable we are sitting 5th mid-way through the season. I reckon an extra $100k would have been enough to keep Brando, which is a shame (I am sure others might think it is more).

However there must be lessons learned from the departures of Butts and Brando, both of whom are in their prime and who I think we will miss even more in a couple of years when Cotchin, Riewold, Bachar, Edwards, etc. are retired and there will be some gaps in our all important list profile.

Interesting to hear people's thoughts, not so much on Butts and Brando specifically, but what we must do ensure the integrity of our list over the next 3 or 4 years as
1. key players retire, and
2. we manage a wealth of junior talent and development expertise within the club.

One learning I have is being able to retain important top 15-20 list players that are entering their prime career window, and for whatever might be in and out of the team. Brando is a good example, Matt White another where we risk missing out on the best 3 or 4 years of their careers after many years invested in their development. A good example in our current list is Kamdyn McIntosh, who despite his flaws, is a very handy player, structurally important and at 26 coming into his prime years. A type that wouldn't likely get us much in compensation, but likely to have another solid 6 years ahead of him for the club.

Obviously you can't keep everyone (and Blair Hartley is A-grade), but there is an art to managing a mature, successful, deep list.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Reckon Butler's success is credit to Butler more so than a failing of Richmond. I'm sure they didn't expect pick 60-something to yield a player in AA form. What they picked up on the swings they have probably lost on the roundabouts (Hannebery 10 games on big coin).

We've never batted as deep (reigning VFL premiers) and it has kept us afloat when injuries would've sunk us in any other era. The salary cap works against successful clubs and we will simply not be able to pay (and play) everyone on their merits; you're just not meant to have AFL-standard players in reserve. That's where the allure of being part of a successful club comes in.

Aside from other clubs hunting bargains, we need to take three (?) ND picks every year and I'd find it difficult to nominate which three listed players don't deserve to be persevered with. Likewise, the rookie list has a time limit and Stack, Pickett, Chol, Eggmolesse-Smith and Aarts will need to be upgraded or cut. Talented, under-utilised players are going to depart through no real fault of their own.

We were big players on the trade market in the early 70's and it's likely we will be again if the current era is to be extended.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I’ll argue it’s best to let them go.

We’re producing an abundance of good players because of our excellent development and club culture.

We can and do replace them. Ellis leaving opens an opportunity for someone else to develop within our excellent system.

Another guy’s output should be similar for half the salary.

Let other clubs overpay replaceable players in that 10-30 part of their list.

AFL has larger teams than most other sports. As teams get larger, individual influence gets smaller. Richmond seems to get this basic principle.

Butler’s success will only increase our reputation and allow us to attract better compo in the future.

We shouldn’t ever be greedy though - when has ruthlessness at the trade table ever helped anyone in this sport?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
We have been the best AFL and VFL side the last 3 seasons.

You can’t pay everyone.

It’s about keeping the right ones and we’ve generally done a very good job of this. Even Butler’s success, while simultaneously gratifying and frustrating, isn’t worth dwelling on. Serviceable small forwards are everywhere and good clubs find them e.g. Aarts.

We kept Martin, Riewoldt, Rance and Cotchin in their primes. We let Deledio and Vickery go. We’re definitely ahead by any metric.

Of the next wave, I’d say Balta, Bolton, CCJ and Stack (despite his uneven form) are must keeps.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Goes both ways.... Prestia, Lynch, Nankervis, Houli...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Reckon Butler's success is credit to Butler more so than a failing of Richmond. I'm sure they didn't expect pick 60-something to yield a player in AA form. What they picked up on the swings they have probably lost on the roundabouts (Hannebery 10 games on big coin).

We've never batted as deep (reigning VFL premiers) and it has kept us afloat when injuries would've sunk us in any other era. The salary cap works against successful clubs and we will simply not be able to pay (and play) everyone on their merits; you're just not meant to have AFL-standard players in reserve. That's where the allure of being part of a successful club comes in.

Aside from other clubs hunting bargains, we need to take three (?) ND picks every year and I'd find it difficult to nominate which three listed players don't deserve to be persevered with. Likewise, the rookie list has a time limit and Stack, Pickett, Chol, Eggmolesse-Smith and Aarts will need to be upgraded or cut. Talented, under-utilised players are going to depart through no real fault of their own.

We were big players on the trade market in the early 70's and it's likely we will be again if the current era is to be extended.
Great summary LTRTR. My concern is the talk of reducing lists to possibly 32 next year. That would mean cutting some really talented players, something I would not want to see happen. I agree about the trade market and also Free Agency being crucial to keeping our window open. Blair is super important to our on-going success.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Suspect Free might be regretting not giving Menadue a chance at les cost than Aish
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Suspect Free might be regretting not giving Menadue a chance at les cost than Aish
I reckon Menadue was stiff to not get another chance. Played some very good vfl games late last year. Had he had a stronger last two games in the finals he may still be in the AFL. Cut-throat for these young men.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Butler in particular is absolutely great for us. Not just playing well himself but now has an integral role with a club, which has picked itself out of the bottom of the ladder and is a real contender for a top 4 finish.
Fantastic. There has already been talk of Caddy, McIntosh, Nankervis and Rance moving to other clubs.
This will also be a year when players wanting to move will be forced to take less, as the TPP is to be reduced.
Fantastic opportunities presented.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I reckon Menadue was stiff to not get another chance. Played some very good vfl games late last year. Had he had a stronger last two games in the finals he may still be in the AFL. Cut-throat for these young men.
Which club was Menadue supposed to play for this year?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
It's mainly to do with the balance of your list. Clearly we had an abundance of small forwards (Butler, Lloyd, Townsend) and less so in key position and good-sized mids so you have to make a decision to allow younger players to come through. I think it's a credit to the Tigers system that these players are doing well at other clubs. The discipline and success has helped them to achieve elsewhere.
 
It's about the development of the kids, and think it's a consequence of the different standard between VFL and AFL. You can only develop players so far in the VFL before they go stale. If they're not getting opportunities in the AFL, their development stagnates. Players like Ellis, Lloyd, Butler, Townsend etc are all better footballers than an18-20 year old kid, and therefore get games ahead of them. But this doesn't help their development.

I wish Butler all the best. He deserves it for all his hard work. What did we lose/gain? Well, we got to see if Aarts could be an adequate replacement, and we got to see Bolton blossom with more game time and opportunity.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Another poor effort and he looked disinterested. Would be a surprise if he gets another he game this year.
 
We have been the best AFL and VFL side the last 3 seasons.

You can’t pay everyone.

It’s about keeping the right ones and we’ve generally done a very good job of this. Even Butler’s success, while simultaneously gratifying and frustrating, isn’t worth dwelling on. Serviceable small forwards are everywhere and good clubs find them e.g. Aarts.

We kept Martin, Riewoldt, Rance and Cotchin in their primes. We let Deledio and Vickery go. We’re definitely ahead by any metric.

Of the next wave, I’d say Balta, Bolton, CCJ and Stack (despite his uneven form) are must keeps.

I agree that those 4 kids are likely the most important juniors on the list, maybe add Cholly also.

Dow and RCd the next 2 probably
 
Former clubs of players who've played senior footy in 2020

2 North Melbourne
4 West Coast
7 Essendon, Richmond
8 Port Adelaide
9 Carlton, Collingwood, Western Bulldogs
10 St.Kilda, Sydney
11 Hawthorn
12 Geelong, Port Adelaide
13 Fremantle
14 Adelaide
16 Brisbane
19 Gold Coast
22 GWS
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user