Liverpool said:
Point taken, many things can be used as weapons: vehicles, baseball bats, kitchen knives - the list is limited only by human ingenuity. But when was the last time any of these things were used for mass murder?
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Uni slaughter in the U.S.A
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Point taken, many things can be used as weapons: vehicles, baseball bats, kitchen knives - the list is limited only by human ingenuity. But when was the last time any of these things were used for mass murder?
Liverpool said:
Decent point again, Liverpudlian. The answer was to implement tighter controls/better security. Same as needs doing with guns.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
I have no problem with that....tighter security on guns, licenses, etc....no problem whatsoever, as the legitimate users will always abide by the law.
I just don't want to see another knee-jerk reaction like what happened after the Port Arthur massacre, thats all.
Liverpool said:
I sympathise with your uncles. My uncle (who I have more respect for than anyone I know) owned several rifles at the time, including his father's cherished war relics. He saw his right to defend his family and property being eroded and seriously considered ignoring the gun amnesty, but did the right thing in the end.
The "right to bear arms" culture is much more deeply entrenched in the US and the government would have a hell of a time enforcing the same laws there, even if it wanted to.
I'm torn on the gun ownership issue. Liverpool, I think that your car comparison is a little flawed as it is difficult to kill 32 people in the same way that this person has with a gun. Also, I would imagine that far more murders happen throughout the world with guns rather than cars.
I do know, however, that if the US govt. banned weapons of this kind that the criminals would still be able to get their hands on them on the black market. All it would do is make it harder for legitimate people to get them. The crims would still have access, granted it would be a little harder and certainly more expensive for them.
When Australia took the hard line on weapons I know it affected many people that I know who were responsible gun owners. My brother, for example, had to hand in some guns that he absolutely loved because they were banned. He used them for shooting wild pigs, foxes and rabbits on ours and friends farms. This was legitimate farm use. Not only did he have to hand them in but he lost a lot of money in having to do so on the cost of the guns.
Having said that, if it keeps these types of guns out of one more madman's hands then it is worth it. As I said, I am torn. I wish that they could come up with a way of only having them in responsible hands or an economically viable hand-in system. Unfortunately, I think that this is impossible.
I do know, however, that if the US govt. banned weapons of this kind that the criminals would still be able to get their hands on them on the black market. All it would do is make it harder for legitimate people to get them. The crims would still have access, granted it would be a little harder and certainly more expensive for them.
When Australia took the hard line on weapons I know it affected many people that I know who were responsible gun owners. My brother, for example, had to hand in some guns that he absolutely loved because they were banned. He used them for shooting wild pigs, foxes and rabbits on ours and friends farms. This was legitimate farm use. Not only did he have to hand them in but he lost a lot of money in having to do so on the cost of the guns.
Having said that, if it keeps these types of guns out of one more madman's hands then it is worth it. As I said, I am torn. I wish that they could come up with a way of only having them in responsible hands or an economically viable hand-in system. Unfortunately, I think that this is impossible.
jayfox said:
If by "criminals" you mean organised crime, that would not be such a bad thing as the authorities would know what they are up against, at least in this country. I don't think the public in Melbourne feel threatened by the current underworld war as they're only knocking off each other. Crazed lone gunmen are the bigger threat by far.
jayfox said:
What about those teens suffering from a mental illness or just showing off, who bring their daddy's (or mummy's) gun to school?
Gypsy__Jazz said:
Quote the whole post Tipsy Jazz. I also said that if it keeps these types of guns out of one more madman's hands then it is worth it. all I said is I can see two sides of the story but ultimately some kind of gun reform needs to be done in the US.
LeeToRainesToRoach said:
Yep, I agree with you.
The NRA lobby in the US is pretty powerful....they wouldn't allow it.
jayfox said:
Jayfox,
I agree with you.....my "car analogy" was never meant to try and say that cars are bigger killers than guns when it comes to deliberate acts of violence.
I was just trying to point out, that in the wrong hands, people can kill others using a car as a weapon (or anything else), just like a gun in the wrong hands, can be used to kill people.
Your brother falls into the same category as my uncles.....law-abiding citizens with gun licenses, who used and stored their guns correctly...yet had to forgo their hobby/passion...because of a lunatic in Tasmania.
The result:
The Federal Government's gun buy back scheme cost $500 million and yielded more than 600,000 long arm guns, yet gun control groups estimate there are more than 300,000 hand guns among Australians, most of them illegal.
http://www.abc.net.au/7.30/content/2003/s1015505.htm
The gun laws change from state to state in the US, but it is in their constitution as "a right to bear arms"
FWIW I lived in the US for 18 months and you can stick the right to bear arms right up your arse.
Most people 'packed' in fear of what the other man in the street may be carrying.
So you'd have young fools out on the grog with a .45 tucked into their jeans while supposedly out relaxing.
We all know how young guys get with a skinful, and there in one moment of madness is a waste of life.
Fear of being shot causing paranoia of being unarmed....way to go :thumbdown
I had one hillbilly threaten me with one, not drawing it on me, but showing me a look at a pistol handle out the top of his strides after an arguement....over my hostel not having a spare room for the night to accomodate him.
That'd be a reason to be capped wouldn't it?
Keep deadly weapons out of the hands of civilians,what need in a city do people have for a gun FFS?
If people want to fire guns for a pastime, let them join a pistol range or some legal gunclub thats regulated properly.
FWIW I lived in the US for 18 months and you can stick the right to bear arms right up your arse.
Most people 'packed' in fear of what the other man in the street may be carrying.
So you'd have young fools out on the grog with a .45 tucked into their jeans while supposedly out relaxing.
We all know how young guys get with a skinful, and there in one moment of madness is a waste of life.
Fear of being shot causing paranoia of being unarmed....way to go :thumbdown
I had one hillbilly threaten me with one, not drawing it on me, but showing me a look at a pistol handle out the top of his strides after an arguement....over my hostel not having a spare room for the night to accomodate him.
That'd be a reason to be capped wouldn't it?
Keep deadly weapons out of the hands of civilians,what need in a city do people have for a gun FFS?
If people want to fire guns for a pastime, let them join a pistol range or some legal gunclub thats regulated properly.
struggletown3121 said:
Good post Tinsel Town. And how easy is it to buy a gun over the counter in the States?
"According to AP news agency, Cho walked into a Virginia gun shop, put down a credit card and walked out with a Glock 19 handgun and a box of ammunition. He paid $US571 ($A687).
Roanoke Firearms owner John Markell told AP his shop sold the Glock to Cho in March. The serial number had been scratched off, but police traced it to the store using the receipt found in Cho's backpack.
"It was a very unremarkable sale," Mr Markell, who did not handle the sale personally told AP. "He was a nice, clean-cut college kid. We won't sell a gun if we have any idea at all that a purchase is suspicious." "
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21570639-2,00.html
Gun control is a mute point to an extent. I can not recall where the exact data is...but I believe that it stated that gun crime has increased since the buy-back in Australia. So it cost the taxpayer massive $ and appears to haqve had no legitimate effect.
In relation to the US incident, it is a disgraceful act and my sincere sympathies to all affected.
In relation to the US incident, it is a disgraceful act and my sincere sympathies to all affected.
