The call we have to make | PUNT ROAD END | Richmond Tigers Forum
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The call we have to make

Been a hell of a lot of post match witch hunts over the last 20 games. Sometimes when things start to smell like crap you've got to look in the little gap between the sole n the heel of your shoe because you've probably got squashed barker nuggy in there.
Ageing list.
Injury prone list.
Career satisfied list.
Rule changes that hinder our list.
Game system that hasn't or is incapable of adapting with the current list.

Maybe the cups only half full because there's a crack in it, not because someone's been drinking the kool aid.

That's a little below the belt.

What you're suggesting invites confirmation bias ('If you smell crap, then it's probably crap')

I'm saying it's foolish to investigate the presence of crap when you're feeling like crap yourself, as you'll be prone to arriving at poor conclusions.

That's just the nature of reality. It's not opinion. I was objectively pointing out a suboptimal approach to addressing a complex topic.

Therefore, your insulting metaphor based off my user name misses the mark, and as such, remains within the spirit of this thread.
 
That's a little below the belt.

What you're suggesting invites confirmation bias ('If you smell crap, then it's probably crap')

I'm saying it's foolish to investigate the presence of crap when you're feeling like crap yourself, as you'll be prone to arriving at poor conclusions.

That's just the nature of reality. It's not opinion. I was objectively pointing out a suboptimal approach to addressing a complex topic.

Therefore, your insulting metaphor based off my user name misses the mark, and as such, remains within the spirit of this thread.

Take a chill pill there cups

The notion of dropping Riewoldt isn’t a reaction to the Adelaide loss. There’s been a groundswell all year.

We are simply not sophisticated enough with our forward entries to honour the various leads of three key forwards.

If we’re just gonna bomb it in, then Balta and Lynch are enough.

What we need is a Clarke and a MRJ at their feet.
 
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The more I think about it the more I am OK with golden jubilee.

If our pensioners get victory laps and stay in the best 22:

- our cultural fabric is retained

- the fans get their long goodbye

- most importantly, we get our top 5 pick in the ND

On the evidence thus far, the recruiters shot the lights out of last year’s draft. Let them go to work again.
 
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Conversely, if we’re still fightin, yes Jack must go.

The decision will be clearer come Round 7-8
 
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You can still strive to be competitive without tipping out all our stars. Youth brings that. Skilled footballers like Sonsie, Clarke and dare I say it Stack.

I agree.

someone like JR, contributes to the RFC for another 50 years,

culturally, strategically, financially.

Id honestly rather miss finals 3 years in a row, and afford Icons like Jack, Sheds, Cotchy the dignity and respect they deserve.

(didn't catchy come out of retirement for a BOG on Saturday night?)

agree, Out: plodders Aarts, Ross, Parker. If a triple premiership hero must go, surely its George? Robbie Tarrant stay on the back seat of the bus, while JR gets dropped off at the servo? Nah.

In with The Future: Dustin Martin, Sonsie, Stack, Brown, Gibcus, Clarke
 
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It's also 4 and 16. 4 wins from the last 16 games played.

Doesn't matter, look at the players we were missing last year compared to now.

You can't call a season after 5 games unless you have a close to full strength team and are getting smashed every week.

We have been missing a 3rd of our best team early and have been competitive and have been ina position to win every one of our 5 games this season.
 
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Crossroads.

2-3 with Melbourne to come.

Soldo must play as ruck #1 because Nankervis is trying - and failing - to get by purely as a battering ram.

We must jettison unskilled labourers - Parker, Aarts, Ross - but these are easy changes and will not in isolation salvage our 2022 campaign.

Jack must go. It’s time. Can’t jump, can’t burst, can’t separate. Can hyena a goal or two but is getting in the way of Lynch and Balta whilst applying zero defensive pressure.

If we are to play Soldo and thus get more leather moving at the coal face against the top side in the comp, Jack must make way to give his comrades more space and to allow for the resting ruck to drift forward.

Crossroads call. Coaching staff integrity call. Are the assistants a bunch of yes men or can they advocate for renewal?

Are we still in the fight for 2022 or are we humouring faded stars with an extended victory lap with one eye firmly on the national draft?

Or, worst of all, are we once again crippled by poor decision making?

We will find out in the next month.

The more I think about it the more I am OK with golden jubilee.

If our pensioners get victory laps and stay in the best 22:

- our cultural fabric is retained

- the fans get their long goodbye

- most importantly, we get our top 5 pick in the ND

On the evidence thus far, the recruiters shot the lights out of last year’s draft. Let them go to work again.
You came around to the right way of thinking eventually!

Dropping Jack would be North Melbourne like.

Plus, it was suggested last year, then he took the best mark of his career and had another 50 goal season.

I understand, and even sort of agree, with your logic regarding Jack, Lynch and Balta.
But there are other ways around it. I would much rather Lynch on a wing than Castagna. And he tried it for 5 minutes to a relative level of success on the weekend.

Even if we don't change anything, our forward line is not really an issue. They are doing their job. Number one at scoring from centre clearance. Our backline is the real concern. Opposition talls are tearing us apart. I really, really want Balta forward, but there's maybe an opportunity there.

Jack is still better than any forward we have at VFL level, and a more consistent goal scorer than any forward we have at AFL level.

I think there's a discussion about how to most effectively use our tall forwards. But that's why Hardwick gets paid the big bucks. Drop Jack is not a good solution.

Not for morale. Not for the future. And not for now. You need to honour your champions. It's how you turn a dynasty into a legacy. Especially while they still contribute.

So Jack plays. As does Cotch. As does Edwards.

And here's where we differ significantly. If we play finals, the above is doubly true.

You want your three time premiership, three time Coleman Medallist on the field come finals.
 
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That's a little below the belt.
depends on how high you're wearing your belt.
What you're suggesting invites confirmation bias ('If you smell crap, then it's probably crap')
There's generally a good reason if you can smell crap, most times it's because there's some crap around somewhere close by causing the stink.
I'm saying it's foolish to investigate the presence of crap when you're feeling like crap yourself, as you'll be prone to arriving at poor conclusions.
If I'm feeling crap then I'm going to investigate the reason for me feeling crap, no poor conclusions arrived at just a search for the root cause.
That's just the nature of reality. It's not opinion. I was objectively pointing out a suboptimal approach to addressing a complex topic.
Psychobabble, fluffy clouds n rose petals. I listed a handful of reasons why we're playing fairly crap footy presently, if you're content with the power of positive pretension that nothing's wrong, enjoy.
Therefore, your insulting metaphor based off my user name misses the mark, and as such, remains within the spirit of this thread.
'Twas but a tiny chirp but it musta obviously hit the mark n rankled, otherwise you'd have ignored it.
 
You came around to the right way of thinking eventually!

Dropping Jack would be North Melbourne like.

Plus, it was suggested last year, then he took the best mark of his career and had another 50 goal season.

I understand, and even sort of agree, with your logic regarding Jack, Lynch and Balta.
But there are other ways around it. I would much rather Lynch on a wing than Castagna. And he tried it for 5 minutes to a relative level of success on the weekend.

Even if we don't change anything, our forward line is not really an issue. They are doing their job. Number one at scoring from centre clearance. Our backline is the real concern. Opposition talls are tearing us apart. I really, really want Balta forward, but there's maybe an opportunity there.

Jack is still better than any forward we have at VFL level, and a more consistent goal scorer than any forward we have at AFL level.

I think there's a discussion about how to most effectively use our tall forwards. But that's why Hardwick gets paid the big bucks. Drop Jack is not a good solution.

Not for morale. Not for the future. And not for now. You need to honour your champions. It's how you turn a dynasty into a legacy. Especially while they still contribute.

So Jack plays. As does Cotch. As does Edwards.

And here's where we differ significantly. If we play finals, the above is doubly true.

You want your three time premiership, three time Coleman Medallist on the field come finals.

I am genuinely conflicted on this issue.

On the one hand, yes Jack proved himself last year and yes, retaining him might well be good for cultural fabric.

But is it really?

Let’s say your name is Maurice. You’ve been plying your trade in the VFL for multiple years and might feel you deserve a crack at a senior game or two.

The seniors are losing most weeks and Dimma is persisting with a three-pronged forward line because he doesn’t want to drop Jack.

Elsewhere in that F50 we have Castagna and Baker, neither of which are natural small forwards.

Wider still, our turnover game plan is being picked apart and exploited right across the ground.

And Jack himself ain’t contributing much. He isn’t leaping like he used to and gives away free kicks in frustration.

How does Maurice Jnr feel? Does he think ‘it’s ok, let’s give Jack a year long victory lap’. Or does he think ‘that forward line needs reinvention, it’s too top heavy and slow. Me, Clarke, we’re being denied a chance to advance our careers.’

I am not normally so conflicted when it comes to footy matters.

Right now I think we are carrying some senior players and we shouldn’t be. It sends the right message to fans but the wrong message to other players.

Of course, we could still finish bottom four with Jack out of the team, but at least the likes of MRJ and Clarke would’ve seen a few games each and rapidly advanced their progress.

My question is this - does a jubilee year for Trent, Jack and Shane hurt us more in the end?

Where do you draw the line? Does someone like Tom Lynch get afforded the same courtesy if his form drops further? I don’t think he would. The line is arbitrary.

Nah, *smile* that. Jack should be dropped if he does little against Melbourne.

Culture can take many forms. In this case, the club is above all. Senior games are a privilege.

Jack won’t be gifted games if his form continues. He will retire and it will be the right decision.
 
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I am genuinely conflicted on this issue.

On the one hand, yes Jack proved himself last year and yes, retaining him might well be good for cultural fabric.

But is it really?

Let’s say your name is Maurice. You’ve been plying your trade in the VFL for multiple years and might feel you deserve a crack at a senior game or two.

The seniors are losing most weeks and Dimma is persisting with a three-pronged forward line because he doesn’t want to drop Jack.

Elsewhere in that F50 we have Castagna and Baker, neither of which are natural small forwards.

Wider still, our turnover game plan is being picked apart and exploited right across the ground.

And Jack himself ain’t contributing much. He isn’t leaping like he used to and gives away free kicks in frustration.

How does Maurice Jnr feel? Does he think ‘it’s ok, let’s give Jack a year long victory lap’. Or does he think ‘that forward line needs reinvention, it’s too top heavy and slow. Me, Clarke, we’re being denied a chance to advance our careers.’

I am not normally so conflicted when it comes to footy matters.

Right now I think we are carrying some senior players and we shouldn’t be. It sends the right message to fans but the wrong message to other players.

Of course, we could still finish bottom four with Jack out of the team, but at least the likes of MRJ and Clarke would’ve seen a few games each and rapidly advanced their progress.

My question is this - does a jubilee year for Trent, Jack and Shane hurt us more in the end?

Where do you draw the line? Does someone like Tom Lynch get afforded the same courtesy if his form drops further? I don’t think he would. The line is arbitrary.

Nah, *smile* that. Jack should be dropped if he does little against Melbourne.

Culture can take many forms. In this case, the club is above all. Senior games are a privilege.

Jack won’t be gifted games if his form continues. He will retire and it will be the right decision.
Good post. Culture is a tricky concept. We seem to have it. Lack of games to MRJ might annoy him and he has the right to leave punt road and ply his trade elsewhere. There's about 12 examples of that in the last 4 or 5 years. Lynch and Dusty contracts mean a lot of RFC players will find better offers elsewhere. I think some of the senior players took pay cuts to get Lynch in. Selfless. Dimma has thought the 22 from round 1 are a strong side. Jr, cotch and Edwards in the line up. I think cotch has been good. JR pretty much the same as last couple of years. Good enough. Edwards is the concern. But if it's his last year I can wear it. Especially close to 300 games at the same club. If we don't make the 8 it doesn't matter. A better draft pick and a clean slate ie JR, cotch, Edwards retire. (And caddy off the books)
Good on dimma for selecting hrs, dow, gibcus. This week should see Lambert back, stack IN and Dusty might be close to playing again. Prestia and vlas made good returns. Miller might keep his spot or taken by gibcus
 
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We’re already on a very different path to Hawthorn post premierships. They traded away years of picks for Patton, Scully, Mitchell, O’Meara and Wingard. Last year alone we took 5 kids from the draft inside the first 30 picks. We are already looking at another 3 picks inside the top 30 again this year.
Exactly, and the Moggies have taken a similar approach too, taking older cast-offs except perhaps Cameron, maybe Tuohy and Henderson who were all mid-career. But haven't prioritised the draft. Yet Moggs did it better than Dawks to continually stay in final 8 - but with no flags!

But the key thing is to find the right kind of players in the draft. Although I like the look of all our latest draftees, the ongoing failure to unearth any really strong, capable midfield bulls to prepare for the demise of our ageing heroes is my concern. Dow might get there, but RCD and Martyn looking challenged with running/speed/kicking issues. Sonsie promising but only rover size as is Bolton, now our most dangerous mid (playing).

Dawks did superbly picking up Jai Newcombe (20/186cm/89kg, already av. 21 x Ds, 5 x Ms, 4 x Ts and 5 x CL) in '21 mid-year draft. As I said to my son yesterday, he's exactly what we needed.
 
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Crossroads.

2-3 with Melbourne to come.

Soldo must play as ruck #1 because Nankervis is trying - and failing - to get by purely as a battering ram.

We must jettison unskilled labourers - Parker, Aarts, Ross - but these are easy changes and will not in isolation salvage our 2022 campaign.

Jack must go. It’s time. Can’t jump, can’t burst, can’t separate. Can hyena a goal or two but is getting in the way of Lynch and Balta whilst applying zero defensive pressure.​


If we are to play Soldo and thus get more leather moving at the coal face against the top side in the comp, Jack must make way to give his comrades more space and to allow for the resting ruck to drift forward.

Crossroads call. Coaching staff integrity call. Are the assistants a bunch of yes men or can they advocate for renewal?

Are we still in the fight for 2022 or are we humouring faded stars with an extended victory lap with one eye firmly on the national draft?

Or, worst of all, are we once again crippled by poor decision making?

We will find out in the next month.
Love Jack but he has to go. Teach the kids in the 2's.
 
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Crossroads.

2-3 with Melbourne to come.

Soldo must play as ruck #1 because Nankervis is trying - and failing - to get by purely as a battering ram.

We must jettison unskilled labourers - Parker, Aarts, Ross - but these are easy changes and will not in isolation salvage our 2022 campaign.

Jack must go. It’s time. Can’t jump, can’t burst, can’t separate. Can hyena a goal or two but is getting in the way of Lynch and Balta whilst applying zero defensive pressure.

If we are to play Soldo and thus get more leather moving at the coal face against the top side in the comp, Jack must make way to give his comrades more space and to allow for the resting ruck to drift forward.

Crossroads call. Coaching staff integrity call. Are the assistants a bunch of yes men or can they advocate for renewal?

Are we still in the fight for 2022 or are we humouring faded stars with an extended victory lap with one eye firmly on the national draft?

Or, worst of all, are we once again crippled by poor decision making?

We will find out in the next month.
Haven’t read the replies to this. But Soldo cannot play forward - of those things you said about Jacks deficiencies, Soldo is far worse. Soldo ruck work against Saints was no good as well - check out his hit to advantage stats.
Nank laid some special tackles against the Bulldogs and was ok - I think he is still the man. Soldo wont get near Gawn either
 
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That’s pretty well spot on - great summary. Older players deserve our respect and can effectively be on field coaches for the rest of 2022.

My only two points of difference is I’ll be surprised if Dow makes it (far too timid, not clean enough and poor kick) and I’ll be surprised if RCD makes it (no running ability). I’ve already written off the ones you have listed.

I’d probably just play Stack at AFL level - some players never respond at a lower level & he’s one of those I suspect. Give him 4-5 weeks as last chance.

The structure of this side needs to be sorted out too. Agree we have to play two proper rucks (and Balta isn’t one), but Lynch & Jack are too slow/immobile to have in same forward line plus Balta plus a resting ruck. Plus they just have to separate - always competing for same bomb kicks.

If Balta is to be a long term CHF, then one of Jack/Lynch needs to go now. It’d be the latter for me - Lynch just doesn’t /can’t move or jump. This is our biggest issue with two years on his contract.

All eyes on VFL today - there’s AFL spots to be had for a team now well & truly in transition.
Lynch? Go now? Give me a spell
 
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How about this - ruck Jack as no.2 - roam and accumulate. He could do some real damge. A la Richo but a bit different. He reads the game so well and is so smart he could compete for periods as second ruckman. I prefer a month trial of this than dropping him, and prefer him in this role than Soldo
 
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How about this - ruck Jack as no.2 - roam and accumulate. He could do some real damge. A la Richo but a bit different. He reads the game so well and is so smart he could compete for periods as second ruckman. I prefer a month trial of this than dropping him, and prefer him in this role than Soldo
Sounds ok in theory but what's the longer-term purpose? He's 33yo. Most key forwards, no matter how good, have retired by this time. We need a sustainable solution that excludes Jack.
 
Lynch? Go now? Give me a spell
Yeah wishful thinking just on the basis that he has an extensive contract that would cost big time to terminate. He's not going as bad as some make out. A bit inconsistent but the bombing it forward game plan does not help the talls in our side.
 
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Sounds ok in theory but what's the longer-term purpose? He's 33yo. Most key forwards, no matter how good, have retired by this time. We need a sustainable solution that excludes Jack.
Agree but if not going to be dropped - I’m talking try it for a month in 2022 rather than the status quo