How was he useful? To whom? Some rich people got richer when he privatised public assets. Those Telstra shares you bought for $4.60 back in 1996 are worth $4.05 now. If you don't account for a quarter of a century of inflation and cost of living rises, that's only a 10% loss. Not bad for Little Johnny.
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Talking Politics
- Thread starter Legends of 2017
- Start date
John Howard is responsible for the current share price of a public company which has been on the ASX for the last 26 years? How so?
To quote you "He also set the country back at least three decades".
Can you explain how he did this, and what were the ramifications over these three decades?
I could, but I don't have the energy. I'm sure if you search the thread you'll find plenty of posts by me and others on the subject.
So mashed potato headed *smile* wit Dutton, who was a high ranking member of a government that pissed $90 billion up against the wall in tearing up the submarine contract with France, is now demanding the current government, in cleaning up his own stinking *smile* pile, is going to pay for new subs.
WTF
Libs are the bestest economic managers!
What a guy
WTF
Libs are the bestest economic managers!
What a guy
Why would China need to invade? They could just drop some ICBMs or use hypersonic missiles
Don't need to invade. They just buy up shut down n squeeze or manipulate. Probably not much different to any other focused n dominant player regardless of the market place they're in.
Kinda hard to correlate how someone can be a god botherer n premium elite soldier at the same time coz technically they're totally polar opposites. Have heard him a few times in the media n you're right spook. He does sound reasonably measured n civilized for a pollie.
I don't disagree about your first point Maso, but also, The Crusades. Religiosity and high hypocrisy are BFFs.
Kinda does my head in with the old Christianity circus. One of their great big, you shall not fudge or you won't get to heaven rules is no snuffin other peoples.
Yet more fightin n killin has been done over history in the name of god botherin than just about anything else. The old Burdon n the Animals many years ago nailed the hypocrisy of religion with their Sky Pilot song n its been resonating with me for over fifty years. Far as I'm concerned, if you're gunna believe in some mythical entity, then ya gotta folla the rules of that entities rule book. Ya can't just fudge n manipulate the rules to suit your purpose at varying times.
Must admit though that apart from the God botherin part, the rest of them ten rules are still about the best rules ever written for humanity. Pity no bastard ever adheres to them, but then again we're human n humans can do whatever the *smile* they want n stuff everyone else.
As long as the false gods you can’t make idols of are non Richmond deities then that makes sense. Otherwise you only need one rule.
Don’t be a *smile* ing *smile*.
What a deflection ,just look through 1120 pages ,,teflon Dan would be proud
Here's a quick primer on Howard
- committed troops to wars based on lies in Iraq and Afghanistan when most commentators at the time knew these were lies
- overheated the housing market with cap gains concessions, first home buyers grants, and fuelling immigration for the primary purpose of increasing demand for housing - those chickens have been coming home to roost for two decades now with people paying crippling mortgages for life or being frozen out of the market
- squandered the wealth of the mining boom on tax concessions and kickbacks for wealthy and middle-class older australians.
- directed more money to private schools while robbing state schools and running down public education and universities
- ran down medicare and forced most of us into inefficient and expensive private health insurance, making private health providers and overseas insurance giants even richer, meanwhile the poor have to pay gap fees to see a GP.
- accelerated privatisation of public utilities - hello rip-off electricity prices.
Probably more I could think of but can't be arsed right now. Short answer is that in good economic times, Howard splurged it all on middle-class welfare and tax benefits for the rich.
There's such a thing as the search function, champ.
5 decades.
He firmly rooted populism and individualism in our national psych
He dog whistled up racial intolerance
He designed the christian right that we have today
He casualised our workforce
He abolished ATSIC (the voice)
He privatised energy
He part-privatised health
He undertook no nation building in 12 years.
In the debate of laziest, corrupt, most useless PM ever,
Morrison wins by 10 lengths
But for the title of the nastiest, most cuntical, most culturally destructive, who crafted the most inequitable and enduring legacy,
Howard is comfortably the worst PM we ever had.
Most of our major domestic challenges today, 20 years on; housing affordability, underfunded health, underfunded education, energy prices, rising extremism, labour shortages, increasing indigenous disadvantage, refugee policy,
Can all be sheeted back to Howard without too much trouble.
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This is the big one for me.
Our national infrastructure was left behind whilst Howard and Costello spent the windfall on providing super tax concessions and cash refunds on dividend imputation that are now unaffordable.
We should also have used that time to change the way we tax mining companies, more in line with the rest of the world.
John Howard
Howard became Australia’s second-longest-serving Prime Minister, and during his term in office achieved nation-wide gun control legislation and significant reforms in industrial relations and taxation.
Im about to go to the footy ,so l won't add anything else .
Go the Tiges
He deserves great credit for what he did on gun control post Port Arthur
Wow! It's amazing he was voted in for 4 terms given, to quote spook, he "set the country back at least three decades".
You obviously weren't a fan, but he must have had some supporters.
I'm certainly happy to give you some of the above, particularly the troops to war but I'll pick you up on a few:
I would have thought the first home owner's grant was a good initiative, giving many people the opportunity to own property that they otherwise couldn't afford. I have friends who took advantage of that initiative and now have good equity in their homes, and the ability to use that equity to make further investments. Why are you against the first home owner's grant which is still in place today? Why haven't the ALP scrapped it?
Overheating the housing market results in a boom bust situation. The largest peak-to-trough housing price drop since 1980 (excluding the COVID years) was 8.7% in 1982-83. Can you tell me when the housing market actually overheated?
Crippling mortgages for life and people frozen out of the market? With the prime interest rate being below 5% since 2008, it's been a great time to invest in property. I don't understand your angst, and what a government can do to alter market forces. Of course some people are frozen out of the property market, the same with every other major city worldwide. Still plenty of affordable housing (and employment) in regional area if you're prepared to get off your arse and have a look. Governments can't control the price of housing, just the same as they can't control currencies, commodities etc. Does my head in when any government gets blamed for rising housing prices. Governments can certainly assist those less fortunate with public housing projects etc, but they can't effect market forces.
Immigration is an essential part of growth. Are you against immigration? Are you scared that immigrants are going to take your job? Nonsense when you say "fuelling immigration for the primary purpose of increasing demand for housing". Do you have any idea how screwed we would be as a country without immigration? Let's see how Japan ends up down the track without immigration.
I am 100% against government-funding of private schools (I call them Government-funded, non-public schools as they sure as sh!t aint private or independent). I'm still waiting for the ALP to stop this. Do you think they will re-direct fund bound for GFNPS to public schools? I haven't seen one indication they will.
Ah Medicare. So much BS flies around regarding Medicare. How did he run it down exactly? I think Medicare is brilliant. As background, I owned and ran a bulk-billing medical centre in regional Victoria for 12 years from 2007. Paid my GPs well, had happy patients and the centre made good profit. Win-win-win. Now apparently bulk-billing is not viable. Complete nonsense.
On your final point, privatization leads to competition and productivity. If you rip off consumers, they'll go elsewhere. Do you really think a monopoly like the old SEC, Gas & Fuel Corp or the Water Board were big on competition and productivity? These dinosaurs were so inefficient, they had to be sold off.
One final point...do you give Howard credit for gun control after Port Arthur? I have some rusted on Labour mates who like you, hated Howard, but absolutely thought those reforms were brilliant and give him full credit for it.
BTW, my politics is firmly in the centre. I have voted for both ALP and LNP before...I'm no right ring nutjob. LNP with Morrison and Dutton have completely lost me. I'm liking what I'm seeing with Albo so far, but as for Dan...I think it'll end in tears.
Yes, it was a great reform. It was needed, and data shows it worked quickly and effectively.
But thats his legacy from 11 years in charge?
Everyone points it out. Howard = gun control
Because its the only decent reform he did, in a decade.
Gillard had plain packaging on cigarettes, in a minority government, in 2 months.
