Shouldn't We Have Improved?

[tonemaster]

Of the 13 players no longer Tigers from last year, only Bowden had any real influence over the course of the year, and even he only played 12 games.

The other 12 players just made up the numbers.

Comparing the teams, theoretically this year's team should be better, what with Dustin Martin and Ben Nason's emergence and the extra experience in the legs of players like Vickery, Thursfield, Moore, Riewoldt, Nahas, Tambling, Deledio, Edwards etc., not to mention the new coach who is supposedly a far better one than Wallace.

But this year's bunch of players have been producing decidedly less than last year's. Sure, it's early days, but I feel like we're farther off winning games this year than we were last.

So what's happened?

I really don't understand how we could have gone backwards.

 

[Tygrys]

Maybe some of them aren't going to be anything more than just average players. That they as good realistically as they are ever going to get. Certainly five of those mentioned in this post could be argued would fall under this category.

More generally I remember something I think Scabman said in reference to people in this forum hoping for improved ladder performance and some even hoping we could play finals. That it was delusional to believe that you could have had a cleanout comparable to his hawks and not have to bottom out the way they did. That we can fantasize about it happening but recent history has shown that every club that has done this has gone through the same downturn (and they all too cleaned out duds, players that were passed it and players that just made up the numbers). The influx of youth, especially when it just includes a sole top ten draft pick isn't enough to compensate for the experience and hard bodies of those departing. It's going to be a long few years, might as well get use to it now.

 

[bullus_hit]

It will be a long year, much will depend on the development of the tall blokes going into the future. If we fast track the likes of Astbury, Vickery, Post and Griffiths the pain will be pronounced initially but we will be better off in the long run.

It took Roughead and Franklin 3 years so this is a fair barometer in my view.

Let's just hope this years draft yields some more tall timber so we have the numbers game firmly in our favour.

 

[mb64]

Of the 13 players no longer Tigers from last year, only Bowden had any real influence over the course of the year, and even he only played 12 games.

The other 12 players just made up the numbers.

Comparing the teams, theoretically this year's team should be better, what with Dustin Martin and Ben Nason's emergence and the extra experience in the legs of players like Vickery, Thursfield, Moore, Riewoldt, Nahas, Tambling, Deledio, Edwards etc., not to mention the new coach who is supposedly a far better one than Wallace.

But this year's bunch of players have been producing decidedly less than last year's. Sure, it's early days, but I feel like we're farther off winning games this year than we were last.

So what's happened?

I really don't understand how we could have gone backwards.

New coach,new gameplan,new coaching staff & new excuses.

 

[Mac]

No.

Just a new game plan would be enough to need some adjustment. We're only at round 4.
Several new players would also take an adjustment period.
So, a new game plan and new players requires some patience.
Add that a lot of the new players are very young and you now have learning curve, experience and body size/hardness to factor in. Play the year 11's against the year 9's...who do you think will win.

I fully expect us not 'improve' result wise, but I think we have improved for a tong term view. Still a lot of work to do and more list turnover needed which will bring further losses against bigger bodied teams. This is what a lot of people have been waiting to happen for ages....stop concentrating on short term meaningless wins and foresaking long term success. (West Coast won a GF, two years later they finish bottom and pick up Nic Nat...list management for cyclic success)

Don't forget also that tall players usually take longer to develop than smaller ones. Our tall players are either very young or haven't shown much (or poor old Simmo who has no knees). It will take a while to see any of them emerge (if any)

Yesterday's game was a good indicator of where we are....we were competive for a half as the few good players we have gave it a go. Then we coughed up some goals due to mistakes from inexperience, or lack of skill. Then we fell away as the game went on becuase Melbourne's team is a couple of years ahead of our in terms of player development and their slightly more seasoned bodies and a bit more experience wore us down.. Melbourne aren't world beaters yet, but they are getting stronger...they had Collingwood all but beat.

Whether we're getting everyhting right with list mangement right now has been and will be debated, but the direction at least is promising. Forget that 2011 rubbish that Terry Wallace predicted. He's gone. Three to four years time is probably more like when we'll see if we've got most things on track.

 

[doherz]

Of the 13 players no longer Tigers from last year, only Bowden had any real influence over the course of the year, and even he only played 12 games.

The other 12 players just made up the numbers.

Comparing the teams, theoretically this year's team should be better, what with Dustin Martin and Ben Nason's emergence and the extra experience in the legs of players like Vickery, Thursfield, Moore, Riewoldt, Nahas, Tambling, Deledio, Edwards etc., not to mention the new coach who is supposedly a far better one than Wallace.

But this year's bunch of players have been producing decidedly less than last year's. Sure, it's early days, but I feel like we're farther off winning games this year than we were last.

So what's happened?

I really don't understand how we could have gone backwards.

give it time - we have the youngest list in the comp, one of the youngest lists EVER in history

 

[Rod]

I'm not worried but will be looking for improvement in 2nd half of the year.

Lot of kids with a solitary preaseason under their belt. Not surprised we're struggling to put 4 quarters together.

 

[Barnzy]

give it time - we have the youngest list in the comp, one of the youngest lists EVER in history

Also one of the worst lists EVER while trying to improve it through compromised drafts.

 

[Opulentus Tigris]

Another thread and more evidence of the unrealistic expectations of a number of posters.

Did you really think we'd be better than last year? Why the knee jerk reaction? Is it because Melbourne beat us?

For the record. Melbourne has had the same coach for what? Two or three years. That's two or three years ahead of us. Yes, Melbourne has improved, but not by much. With the amount of time Bailey has had and the number of high draft picks, they should at least be competing for a finals birth, they still might. The point is, it will turn for Melbourne and quickly. This time last year Freo were a basket case, and they have turned the corner very quickly. We will be no different. The second half of the season is when we will see real improvement. Not wins, but improvement. 2011 we will turn the corner at some stage. 2012 finals. 2013 top 4. 2013 GF.

Patience.

 

[Tigerbob]

Another thread and more evidence of the unrealistic expectations of a number of posters.

Did you really think we'd be better than last year? Why the knee jerk reaction? Is it because Melbourne beat us?

For the record. Melbourne has had the same coach for what? Two or three years. That's two or three years ahead of us. Yes, Melbourne has improved, but not by much. With the amount of time Bailey has had and the number of high draft picks, they should at least be competing for a finals birth, they still might. The point is, it will turn for Melbourne and quickly. This time last year Freo were a basket case, and they have turned the corner very quickly. We will be no different. The second half of the season is when we will see real improvement. Not wins, but improvement. 2011 we will turn the corner at some stage. 2012 finals. 2013 top 4. 2013 GF.

Patience.

Very good post.

Your one who grasps the reality of the situation. Well said.

 

[premiers2011]

We got rid of about 800 games of experienced, hard bodied players.

There's no way in the world you could expect to turn over 14 players and still be as competetive.

i think we should look at the "glass half full" theory that we're not much worse without them and we can only improve

 

[Rosy]

We got rid of about 800 games of experienced, hard bodied players.

They only contributed to a hand full of games last season though. I would have expected us to be more competitive this season. A few senior players haven't been at their best and we've had a few very ordinary quarters. There's no reason that can't change straight away with the right mindset and belief.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Another thread and more evidence of the unrealistic expectations of a number of posters.

Did you really think we'd be better than last year? Why the knee jerk reaction? Is it because Melbourne beat us?

For the record. Melbourne has had the same coach for what? Two or three years. That's two or three years ahead of us. Yes, Melbourne has improved, but not by much. With the amount of time Bailey has had and the number of high draft picks, they should at least be competing for a finals birth, they still might. The point is, it will turn for Melbourne and quickly. This time last year Freo were a basket case, and they have turned the corner very quickly. We will be no different. The second half of the season is when we will see real improvement. Not wins, but improvement. 2011 we will turn the corner at some stage. 2012 finals. 2013 top 4. 2013 GF.

Patience.

Geez I reckon if we made the top 10 in 2013 would be a great result let alone a top 4/GF finish haha

 

[Punxsutawney Phil]

I am not suprised we haven't improved. A big ask to replace the experience we have lost with kids. Even the list cloggers that are gone, they give better immediate performances than kids simply because they have bigger bodies, are more experienced and don't tire as easily.

This was always going to happen IMO.

Mind you, people have to also remember that we were terrible last year, it isn't as if it has been a huge fall over the past 12 months...in our last four games last year, with an older more experienced side, we copped uncompetitive floggings at the hands of Collingwood, Sydney and West Coast, and a mildly more competitive beating from Hawthorn.

Hardwick has a mountain of work to do.

 

[thejinx]

Geez I reckon if we made the top 10

Gotta get used to saying Top 10 soon...

 

[Spanish Prisoner]

give it time - we have the youngest list in the comp, one of the youngest lists EVER in history

Not really. The list is marginally younger than others around. On most weeks the team named have been within a very small margin of others.

Also one of the worst lists EVER while trying to improve it through compromised drafts.

This is the key point. West Coast won a flag in 2005 with the youngest list in the comp. Hawthorn did the same in 2008. While both have struggled since - they were both young and good. Our list is young, and not very good.

You could grab a bunch of under 18s at random, and run around saying they are the youngest list in the comp. But it doesn't mean they will ever be the best!

Gotta get used to saying Top 10 soon...

Top ten doesn't get you much in an eight team finals structure.

 

[Tiger_4_Life]

Gotta get used to saying Top 10 soon...

When a Top 10 is introduced we'll consistently start finishing 11th :hihi

 

[Giardiasis]

This is the key point. West Coast won a flag in 2005 with the youngest list in the comp. Hawthorn did the same in 2008. While both have struggled since - they were both young and good. Our list is young, and not very good.

Perhaps a little bit misleading there. I doubt you will find that they had the youngest 22s.

 

[dptyl1]

Interested to get the views of others on this, but one thing that Hardwick said in the press conference yesterday got me thinking, and I think it has been the story of the season so far. He mentioned something about just the third quarter hurting us. I tend to agree because as he sais take that out and we lose by eleven points. I think it would have been a similar story in the swans and dogs games.
One difference I have noticed since the last couple of Wallace years is that while we are still losing games, we haven't had those 100 point floggings that used to happen regularly against the cats, saints, dogs, etc. (I probably should add yet to that)
Instead we have shown that in patches we can play some good footy and match it with some good sides. What is giving me hope at the moment is that as the players mature and the game plan sinks in these good patches should extend out to good halves and then good four quarter performances.

 

[BillyJean17]

best way to respond to this would be to refer to the likes of Cartlon, st.kilda, Hawthorn, Geelong, Melbourne and Now Freo and consider how they went in first season under NEW coach and how we are tracking by comparrison.

Then reconsider those thoughts :