Shark Cull

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

From that paper:

"Due to the environmental impacts of shark control activities, it is not recommended that either shark
nets of drum-lines be introduced into Western Australia."

Did you even read it L2R2R?

Skimmed through it. The report recommended further investigation of shark enclosures, which are effective at protecting swimmers but not surfers/divers, and are not practical in all areas. The report appears to be slanted in a certain direction, i.e. extensive discussion of bycatch, no costing of the recommended enclosures and abrupt dismissal of the safety benefits of netting. The WA government would've likely been seeking a more balanced perspective. I know I would've been.

 

[tigergollywog]

What price do you put on a human life?

depends doesnt it? I'd bid higher on The Chimp than I would on Christopher Pyne.

 

[Rosy]

....
Plenty of research contributed to the decision.

http://www.fish.wa.gov.au/Documents/occasional_publications/fop108.pdf

I can't be bothered reading all of that. Did they research the specific area I questioned and you posted the link in response to...ie attracting sharks to the bait that might not have come in close otherwise?

It's interesting that despite the research evidenced on the Government website that lists the great white shark as likely to become extinct in WA they are still willing to lure, bait and cull them.

 

[AngryAnt]

Skimmed through it. The report recommended further investigation of shark enclosures, which are effective at protecting swimmers but not surfers/divers, and are not practical in all areas. The report appears to be slanted in a certain direction, i.e. extensive discussion of bycatch, no costing of the recommended enclosures and abrupt dismissal of the safety benefits of netting. The WA government would've likely been seeking a more balanced perspective. I know I would've been.

Fair enough. It's interesting though that the only research into the topic in WA seems to have recommended against the action the WA govt. has now taken.

Of course, I'd never accuse the WA State Government of proceeding with an ill-thought out, knee-jerk policy response that contravenes advice that they commissioned in a poor attempt at populism that costs a heap of money, threatens the marine ecology and has little to no chance of success :hihi

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

It's interesting that despite the research evidenced on the Government website that lists the great white shark as likely to become extinct in WA they are still willing to lure, bait and cull them.

Do you have a link to an official site that states "likely to become extinct in WA"?

Anecdotal reports are that numbers are way up, which experts will tell you isn't possible in the short time they've been protected (1999-). The great white is predominantly a pelagic (ocean-going) shark. Perhaps the numbers were always there; some have suggested the sharks are following humpback whales into shallow water, where an increased number of beachings have occurred in recent years. It's another theory among dozens. Facts are in short supply.

 

[WesternTiger]

Fair enough. I've acknowledged that bycatch is a serious drawback to netting. The WA government took this into account when opting for drum lines instead (although one beach near Perth had nets installed in December).

Even so - and I acknowledge there are variables involved, such as improved emergency first aid treatment - the NSW shark attack figures appear to show the most dangerous sharks are being kept out.

Last decade: 82 reported attacks, 2 fatal
Decade before netting (1927-36): 45 attacks, 17 fatal

There's only been one death at Sydney's netted beaches in nearly 80 years. What price do you put on a human life?

Commercial fishing certainly would have contributed significantly to the reduction in attacks no doubt.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Of course, I'd never accuse the WA State Government of proceeding with an ill-thought out, knee-jerk policy response that contravenes advice that they commissioned in a poor attempt at populism that costs a heap of money, threatens the marine ecology and has little to no chance of success :hihi

Actually I don't think it was a knee-jerk decision. The Bond University report was completed 18 months ago. As a populist move it's been a dismal failure and has brought mostly negative press. I think they've made a considered decision in arriving at drum lining as a middle-of-the-road solution specific for the region, which they thought would offend the fewest people while providing reassurance to water users.

 

[WesternTiger]

Do you have a link to an official site that states "likely to become extinct in WA"?

Anecdotal reports are that numbers are way up, which experts will tell you isn't possible in the short time they've been protected (1999-). The great white is predominantly a pelagic (ocean-going) shark. Perhaps the numbers were always there; some have suggested the sharks are following humpback whales into shallow water, where an increased number of beachings have occurred in recent years. It's another theory among dozens. Facts are in short supply.

Whose anecdotal reports?

Some good info on the SPRAT website re. great whites and their listing. http://www.environment.gov.au/cgi-bin/sprat/public/publicspecies.pl?taxon_id=64470

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Commercial fishing certainly would have contributed significantly to the reduction in attacks no doubt.

No doubt. Balanced somewhat by the increase in population/recreational activity in that period. There are some major variables involved.

Fatalities in NSW:

1917-1926 - 13
1927-1936 - 17
--- netting introduced
1937-1946 - 8
1947-1956 - 8
1957-1966 - 3
1967-1976 - 1
1977-1986 - 1
1987-1996 - 2
1997-2006 - 0
2007-2014 - 2

Given that netting would've been introduced gradually at selected beaches, the figures are compelling at face value.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Whose anecdotal reports?

Professional fishermen.

 

[AngryAnt]

I found this article illuminating about the history of shark netting in NSW.

https://theconversation.com/the-untold-story-of-shark-nets-in-australia-3748

Some quotes:

During the Second World War, beach nets were removed from ocean beaches so fisheries ships could be used by the Americans. For three years, between 1943 and 1946, there were no fatal shark bites at these un-netted beaches.

At the end of the war, New South Wales Premier William McKell announced in the Sydney Morning Herald that beach nets were “quite valueless”, noting that “since meshing ceased in January 1943, there had been no shark fatality on our beaches.”

However, instead of abandoning shark nets, the Premier announced plans to use them in combination with experimental shark repellents because: “if meshing alone were used, I fear it would prove to be of little value. Worse, it would possibly lull the public into a sense of false security, leading to diminished watchfulness and possibly to tragedy.”

With no shark bites and little threat in these locations, the nets were put back and expanded to the Illawarra and Hunter under this new plan of action.

The DPI’s 2009 review provided a contemporary view of shark nets. Then Environment Minister Ian Macdonald called the nets “highly successful.” Yet the report of shark bite incidents from 1937-2008 showed that of the 38 shark attacks recorded in the state, 24 of them (63%) took place at netted beaches, with 14 injuries.

But attributing low fatality rates to beach nets is questionable. Internationally, fatality rates from shark bites have declined dramatically for all shark control methods, including doing nothing.

Irish trauma researcher David Caldicott published a study in 2001 showing the survival rate for shark bites is 80%, due to better on-scene treatment and antibiotics. The leading reason for fatalities was blood loss.

 

[tigergollywog]

The great white is predominantly a pelagic (ocean-going) shark. Facts are in short supply.

No and no. CSIRO have done mountains of work. tagging and tracking 200 of 'em for about a decade shows they pretty much stick to the leeward side of the continental shelf (the shallow bit).

C'mon Roachy, as our statistical go-to-man, i'd expect better interpretation of the data than your offering up.

Irish trauma researcher David Caldicott published a study in 2001 showing that, if you put your head in a great whites mouth, it'll bite it off

That Caldicott (2001) paper really was seminal.

 

[AngryAnt]

Perhaps some of you would like to visit an SA school tomorrow morning and explain to the kids why their teacher won't be back, but it's OK because nature's beautiful, he knew the risks and they'll have a nice new teacher by tomorrow.

Sam Kellett's family appear to have pretty much taken that line.

The family of an Adelaide shark attack victim say he would not have wanted the shark, or any other, culled.

Sam Kellett, 28, a second-year English teacher at Glenunga International High School, was taken while spear fishing near Edithburgh on Saturday.

His parents David and Ann say their son had a great love of the ocean and respect for sharks.

"He knew he was a a visitor in their backyard and the last thing he would want is for this shark, or any other, to be hunted down and culled," they said in a statement released via South Australian police.

Students and staff at Glenunga are mourning their loss and have set up a memorial near the school entrance, with floral tributes and their teacher's picture.

Principal Wendy Johnson says students were told of his death when they arrived in their classrooms at the start of the school day.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-10/shark-attack-victim-sam-kellett-no-cull-family-statement/5249396?section=sa

Of course, you could always rock up to the school, sympathise with the kids and explain why the family is wrong and why these vicious, evil creatures need to be wiped out ASAP.

Up for that?

 

[AngryAnt]

That Caldicott (2001) paper really was seminal.

Not sure of your point here golly.

 

[Tigers of Old]

Sam Kellett's family appear to have pretty much taken that line.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-10/shark-attack-victim-sam-kellett-no-cull-family-statement/5249396?section=sa

Of course, you could always rock up to the school, sympathise with the kids and explain why the family is wrong and why these vicious, evil creatures need to be wiped out ASAP.

Up for that?

:clap

 

[tigergollywog]

Not sure of your point here golly.

It was a poorly executed joke. I doctored your quote to make a dumb irish joke. Ahem

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Of course, you could always rock up to the school, sympathise with the kids and explain why the family is wrong and why these vicious, evil creatures need to be wiped out ASAP.

Up for that?

Here's the thing, anybody who differs from the man-must-passively-coexist-with-nature perspective is painted as an extremist.

If someone explained the facts, the kids'd probably have nightmares.

 

[Rosy]

..... Perhaps some of you would like to visit an SA school tomorrow morning and explain to the kids why their teacher won't be back, but it's OK because nature's beautiful, he knew the risks and they'll have a nice new teacher by tomorrow.

.....

Sounds like you're a family member of the shark victim considering their response to the situation.

Do you have a link to an official site that states "likely to become extinct in WA"?

....

Yep. Posted it already.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

No and no. CSIRO have done mountains of work. tagging and tracking 200 of 'em for about a decade shows they pretty much stick to the leeward side of the continental shelf (the shallow bit).

C'mon Roachy, as our statistical go-to-man, i'd expect better interpretation of the data than your offering up.

Obviously they enter coastal waters, but definitely classed as pelagic.

http://www.pelagic.org/montereybay/pelagic/greatwhiteshark.html

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Sounds like you're a family member of the shark victim considering their response to the situation.

Not at all, but let's have some balanced reporting. A shark attack is an horrific event. Here's one factual account that popped up at random.

http://www.sharkattackfile.net/spreadsheets/pdf_directory/1980.01.05-Miranda.pdf

I believe encouraging people to think shark attacks are only ever a case of mistaken identity and that they can peacefully share the same space is pulling the wool over their eyes.