Punt Road Redevelopment

[caesar]

Richmond to do a 15.5 million redevelopment, (or at least that what the Vic Gov't is tipping in), in 2022, a far cry from the pre Covid 60 million dream redevelopment but desperately needed nonetheless

Yep my mistake the 15.5 mill is just a contribution by State Gov't still aiming for 60 mill development as per RFC site;

State Government Announce Funding for Punt Road Oval Redevelopment

Richmond today thanked the Daniel Andrews State Government following the announcement of a $15.5 million funding contribution for the redevelopment of Punt Road Oval.

www.richmondfc.com.au

 

[tigertim]

Just heard Benny on SEN, he was saying the development is because the PRO isn’t big enough and to make it MCG size they need to eat into the JDS. Sai the oval size affects the quality of VFL games. Said that Noah Balta can have a run the kick it and hes got the length of the oval (Was joking though)

Anyone know the dimensions of PRO v MCG?

 

[taztiger4]

Just heard Benny on SEN, he was saying the development is because the PRO isn’t big enough and to make it MCG size they need to eat into the JDS. Sai the oval size affects the quality of VFL games. Said that Noah Balta can have a run the kick it and hes got the length of the oval (Was joking though)

Anyone know the dimensions of PRO v MCG?

Not sure but isnt PRO the same size as shitihad ?

Did DavidSS thread on ground sizes have a comparison ?

 

[taztiger4]

Just heard Benny on SEN, he was saying the development is because the PRO isn’t big enough and to make it MCG size they need to eat into the JDS. Sai the oval size affects the quality of VFL games. Said that Noah Balta can have a run the kick it and hes got the length of the oval (Was joking though)

Anyone know the dimensions of PRO v MCG?

There ya go (ya lazy bastard)

Ground Sizes

Nice find that pic. Looks almost round too although you wonder where they drew the boundaries. Looks a reasonable size but hard to tell. The past truly is another planet. Given the narrowness of Glenferrie I thought I would find a couple of aerial photos, so here is what I found on the...

www.puntroadend.com

 

[tigertim]

There ya go (ya lazy bastard)

Ground Sizes

Nice find that pic. Looks almost round too although you wonder where they drew the boundaries. Looks a reasonable size but hard to tell. The past truly is another planet. Given the narrowness of Glenferrie I thought I would find a couple of aerial photos, so here is what I found on the...

www.puntroadend.com

Thanks mate. (I knew someone would do it)

So it’s only 1 metre shorter in length but 15metres narrower. I wonder how being 15m narrower affect the quality of VFL games

 

[Ridley]

Looking at those comparisons David did; gee Waverley was a massive ground. 20m longer than the G and a metre wider.

 

[caesar]

Thanks mate. (I knew someone would do it)

So it’s only 1 metre shorter in length but 15metres narrower. I wonder how being 15m narrower affect the quality of VFL games

Pretty simple I would have thought?, congestion and not as much width and space to switch play

 

[Tigers of Old]

Is it possible for a stand to go over Punt rd or punt road go under a stand ? , that would then be very easy to link it up to Richmond station , with a heap of cafes, bars, restaurants and bars joining them

With a bit of vision this is what it should be. That whole railway station precinct needs a makeover. It's the sporting hub of Australia but you can barely get a feed or a beer. Could be amazing.

 

[DavidSSS]

Thanks mate. (I knew someone would do it)

So it’s only 1 metre shorter in length but 15metres narrower. I wonder how being 15m narrower affect the quality of VFL games
View attachment 11267

I'll put a caveat on the comparison.

Ground sizes are a bit (well a lot) vexed, many different measurements available.

For Punt Rd I went with the Colin Hutchinson measurement, not sure when this was done. In the 3LO football Guide from 1928 it was listed as 154m x 135m so 5 metres shorter than above, although the Sporting Globe Football Book from 1946 has Punt Rd as 164.5m long and the MCG 170m long.

That said, these (hopefully boundary measures, not fence) are from when Punt Rd was a VFL venue. The playing area now would likely be quite different. Both the 3LO and Sporting Globe measures would be before Punt Rd was widened in the 1960s.

The width will be an issue I reckon, that wing on the East side, next to Punt Rd, is virtually on the footpath already and the West side is limited by the Swinburne Centre.

Don't know how they will fit this in to be honest.

If they measure the MCG boundary line it would be good to find out exactly what is the correct measure!

DS

 

[DavidSSS]

Looking at those comparisons David did; gee Waverley was a massive ground. 20m longer than the G and a metre wider.

Yep, and I remember going to games there in the 1970s and I would believe it. Also the boundary was miles from the fence so the play was a fair way from the fans.

All originally designed to hold 150,000 fans (without a train line - insane!).

VFL Park was planned to look like this:



Would have been pretty good except for the fact they put it in the middle of nowhere.

DS

 

[tigertim]

Pretty simple I would have thought?, congestion and not as much width and space to switch play

Is that what you’ve noticed when watching VFL games there?

 

[Baloo]

All originally designed to hold 150,000 fans (without a train line - insane!).

The story is that the Glen Waverley line was going to be extended out to Waverley Park but then John Cain. a prominent MCC member, put the breaks on that in an effort to keep the MCG as the premier ground of Melbourne.

It worked.

 

[Ridley]

Yep, and I remember going to games there in the 1970s and I would believe it. Also the boundary was miles from the fence so the play was a fair way from the fans.

All originally designed to hold 150,000 fans (without a train line - insane!).

VFL Park was planned to look like this:

View attachment 11268

Would have been pretty good except for the fact they put it in the middle of nowhere.

DS

I get why they built it there. At the time the major growth corridor in Melbourne was to the east and south so they effectively put a ground where all the people were moving. Also, the suburb of Glen Waverley which is 8km or so up the road was actually right in the middle of the Melbourne metro area (that's only really changed in the last decade or so with the growth of the outer western suburbs). So they ground was in a heavily populated area of the city. But yes they should have extended the Glen Waverley line out to the ground and it would have worked so much better.

As Baloo posted it seems political maneuverings put a stop to that.

 

[caesar]

Is that what you’ve noticed when watching VFL games there?

A lack of space between square and boundary in my experience, (and if data was collected), would show there are a lot more out of bounds and therefore boundary stoppages.

 

[DavidSSS]

The story is that the Glen Waverley line was going to be extended out to Waverley Park but then John Cain. a prominent MCC member, put the breaks on that in an effort to keep the MCG as the premier ground of Melbourne.

It worked.

Not sure about the political manoeuvres with John Cain, I think it goes back a lot further.

As someone who attended Monash in the 1980s I am acutely aware that the line out to Monash from Huntingdale Station on the Dandenong Line was never built (North Rd still has the wide median strip in the middle for that) and I thought the plan was either to run a line to Monash and extend to VFL Park or come off the end of the Glen Waverley line.

In any case, while VFL Park was in a growth area it was still a hell of a long way from the centre of Melbourne. The geographical centre I think is around Glen Eira, which is a lot closer in than Mulgrave. The CBD is maybe 30KMs away. Plus, the rain and the cold! Silly location on reflection. The MCG is just in such a brilliant location, hard to better really - 2 train stations very close and you can walk from the city.

The idea of a 150,000 seat stadium was a good one, these were the days when we would regularly get 110,000 to 120,000 to the Grand Final and you would easily fill it today. The logistics are an issue though - where do you put such a stadium and how do you build something with that capacity without making it like VFL Park where the spectators are miles away from the playing area?

Speaking of capacity, is 8,000 enough for Punt Rd? I suspect we might be able to get closer to 10,000 to 15,000 at AFLW in a few years time, especially if Richmond are successful. Seems a bit limiting to me, would like to see maybe 20,000. I suppose they could build another stand later when they have paid this renovation off.

DS

 

[caesar]

With a bit of vision this is what it should be. That whole railway station precinct needs a makeover. It's the sporting hub of Australia but you can barely get a feed or a beer. Could be amazing.

Yep, but Gill didn't share that vision and excluded RFC from their mega precinct development .

 

[DavidSSS]

With a bit of vision this is what it should be. That whole railway station precinct needs a makeover. It's the sporting hub of Australia but you can barely get a feed or a beer. Could be amazing.

Couldn't agree more.

They could make so much of that area while still retaining the parkland. Move Punt Road under an expansion of the Punt Rd Oval and maybe even just close off Brunton Ave - the traffic just gets into a snarl further up the road anyway.

Get rid of that tip that is Richmond Station too.

DS

 

[Baloo]

Not sure about the political manoeuvres with John Cain, I think it goes back a lot further

The public reserve stands that encircled the oval were finished in 1974 and lighting was installed in 1977. But the ground was plagued by clogged roads and a lack of public transport, including a train line the government promised, but would not bring forward, in the words of Transport Minister Vernon Wilcox, “just because there is a VFL park there”.

But the real death knell for any hope of the ground being expanded to the original grand designs came in the early 1980s when the government knocked back planning permits for the league to expand the ground from its then capacity of 72,000 to more than 102,000 to cater for the 1984 Grand Final.

Key government figures, including premier John Cain, were pro-MCC supporters and did not want the biggest game of the year moved from the MCG. “There was just so much politics,” former VFL president Dr Allen Aylett told the Herald Sun in 2009. “People say Waverley was an iceberg and was never popular; it was popular, but it was never given a good go.”

Super stadium that never was

TO MOST footy fans, there’s nothing in sport that rivals the MCG on grand final day.

www.news.com.au

Bit more on the John Cain involvement

Grandstanding aside, we now boast: that's Melbourne, with a capital 'G'

Once again, an AFL grand final has drawn a massive crowd to the MCG in what is arguably the biggest sports day of the year in a city that prides itself on such occasions. The last day in September rivals the first Tuesday in November as a day that stops the city, if not the nation.

www.smh.com.au

And from Wikipedia
The original plans were for a stadium catering for up to 157,000 patrons, which would have made it one of the biggest stadiums in the world. To accommodate the large number of patrons the members' stand was to be extended around the whole ground. However, in 1982 and/or 1983 when the extensions were due to commence, the Government of Victoria (led by Victorian Premier John Cain, who was a member of the Melbourne Cricket Club) refused to approve the plans for the upgrade because it would have threatened the Melbourne Cricket Ground's (MCG) right to host the VFL Grand Final (the league-owned VFL Park had originally been built with the intent of replacing the MCG as the permanent home of the grand final, but the Victorian government, with interests in the MCG, refused to allow its capacity upgrade). Hence, no further development ever occurred and the capacity was set at just over 100,000 patrons (later reduced to 72,000).[3]

 

[TigerFlag2017]

Couldn't agree more.

They could make so much of that area while still retaining the parkland. Move Punt Road under an expansion of the Punt Rd Oval and maybe even just close off Brunton Ave - the traffic just gets into a snarl further up the road anyway.

Get rid of that tip that is Richmond Station too.

DS

Interesting points. It wouldn't be hard to build an elevated walkway above Brunton Avenue and connecting the train station to the MCG - similar to that connecting MCG and tennis centre. Could introduce some interesting opportunities on the walkway - e.g. a social club overlooking PRO and other dining/retail options.

 

[Baloo]

Interesting points. It wouldn't be hard to build an elevated walkway above Brunton Avenue and connecting the train station to the MCG - similar to that connecting MCG and tennis centre. Could introduce some interesting opportunities on the walkway - e.g. a social club overlooking PRO and other dining/retail options.

I wonder if the AFL/State Government have an aversion to building the whole area properly because we would be such a big part of it.