Polygamy (Split from Christianity thread)

[Tiger74]

You don't know much about how a disease spreads do you.

For a disease to spread, if needs to move from host to host. If a polygamous marriage has no extra marital shenanegans going on, there is no way for the disease to enter the marriage, and even if it does, it stays confined to the marriage group.

Sexual contact needs multiple partners to spread the disease, which is why much of the third world has run rife with AIDS, because prostitutes are more likely to be having unprotected sex (due to lack of education, cost of contraception, etc).

When it comes to stopping AIDS, you need to stop people using second hand needles, and if they cannot keep their pecker in their pants, wear a condom.

 

[Liverpool]

For a disease to spread, if needs to move from host to host. If a polygamous marriage has no extra marital shenanegans going on, there is no way for the disease to enter the marriage, and even if it does, it stays confined to the marriage group.

You're assuming that all parties in the polygamous marriage are clean to begin with....and the more parties you are dealing with then the harder it is to know the complete sexual history of everyone, hence why polygamy is a contributor to Aids spreading.

Why else do we see this then if it isn't a contributor?


Apostolic churches in Zimbabwe ban polygamy
The abolition of polygamy will start with the leaders of the Apostolic and Zionist churches in Zimbabwe in order to fight against HIV/AIDS, which has so far claimed more than two million lives, a local media reported on Sunday.
The policy document was produced after wide consultations since 1993 among members of the Union for the Development of Apostolic Churches in Zimbabwe Africa (UDACIZA), an umbrella body for Apostolic and Zionist churches made up of more than 70 bishops, each representing a church in the country's 10 provinces.
UDACIZA was formed in response to the need for independent churches in Zimbabwe to address national developmental issues, eradication of ignorance, alleviation of poverty and, most importantly, the prevention of HIV/AIDS among members and the nation at large.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200509/19/eng20050919_209259.html


"Polygamous behaviour has been considered one of the major factors promoting the spread of HIV in Africa, where higher rates of HIV infection often are found in areas with high rates of polygamy," it noted.

http://dreamgeneration.blogspot.com/2008/06/africa-cultural-double-standards.html


Polygamy puts women more at risk of HIV/AIDS than men. Added to this is the exchanging of wives, in which male friends share or exchange wives to spice up their marriage through agreement to have sexual intercourse with each other's wives. This practice may put women to HIV/AIDS infection since they are forced by their husbands to comply.

http://www.expotimes.net/books/kempe.htm

 

[Tiger74]

You really just read the headlines don't you?

The issue was people exchanging partners. As said before, as disease needs to spread, and the main ways for AIDS to do this is via unrestricted sexual contact. For it to be an issue in ANY marriage, something needs to be happening within the marriage. If you infect the marriage group, so what? Thats 2, maybe 3,4,5 people. Its when one of them sees their affair or professional, and THEY then start doing it with others that you get the spread.

Also love you using Zimbabwe as an example of all good and right in the world.

 

[Liverpool]

You really just read the headlines don't you?

The issue was people exchanging partners. As said before, as disease needs to spread, and the main ways for AIDS to do this is via unrestricted sexual contact. For it to be an issue in ANY marriage, something needs to be happening within the marriage. If you infect the marriage group, so what? Thats 2, maybe 3,4,5 people. Its when one of them sees their affair or professional, and THEY then start doing it with others that you get the spread.

Exactly!
If the marriage group is infected (either one party is infected prior to marriage or there are extra-marital affairs during marriage) then a polygamous marriage is going to infect more people than a single man/woman marriage, simply because there are more parties involved in a polygamous marriage.
If more parties are infected then that means the disease is spreading because the numbers are greater who are contracting the disease.
Instead of a single man and woman being infected in a marriage system we have here int hsi country (2 people being infected)...in a polygamous situation, if one person is infected then there is a great chance all of a sudden 4, 5, or more are going to contract the disease.
That means the disease is spread because more people are contracting it.....it is simple numbers mate....the more parties involved and exposed then the more it is spread.

 

[Tiger74]

Exactly!
If the marriage group is infected (either one party is infected prior to marriage or there are extra-marital affairs during marriage) then a polygamous marriage is going to infect more people than a single man/woman marriage, simply because there are more parties involved in a polygamous marriage.
If more parties are infected then that means the disease is spreading because the numbers are greater who are contracting the disease.
Instead of a single man and woman being infected in a marriage system we have here int hsi country (2 people being infected)...in a polygamous situation, if one person is infected then there is a great chance all of a sudden 4, 5, or more are going to contract the disease.
That means the disease is spread because more people are contracting it.....it is simple numbers mate....the more parties involved and exposed then the more it is spread.

Cheating is cheating, regardless of the structure of teh marriage. Stop people cheating, and this is not an issue.

You were much better arguing against polygamy on the grounds its an outdated practice that had merit 1000 years ago but not today. On that argument, most here were agreeing with you.

 

[Liverpool]

You were much better arguing against polygamy on the grounds its an outdated practice that had merit 1000 years ago but not today. On that argument, most here were agreeing with you.

There was no argument because it is straight forward.
Even an imbecile could see that.

Cheating is cheating, regardless of the structure of teh marriage. Stop people cheating, and this is not an issue.

You keep talking about cheating...and I haven't mentioned cheating ONCE!

Aids can spread in polygamous situations purely because the cultures where polygamy is common are also cultures where pre-marital sex is common also.
It only takes ONE member of the polygamous marriage to have already contracted Aids and it will most likely infect the other FIVE members of the marriage.
In a normal marriage situation...if one member of the couple has Aids then it will most likely only infect the other party (ONE person).

The difference?
5 people with Aids compared to 2 people with Aids.
Therefore the disease has spread over double in the polygamous situation compared to the normal marriage system we have here.
And not one person has cheated in my hypothesis yet

 

[Tiger74]

There was no argument because it is straight forward.
Even an imbecile could see that.

You keep talking about cheating...and I haven't mentioned cheating ONCE!

Aids can spread in polygamous situations purely because the cultures where polygamy is common are also cultures where pre-marital sex is common also.
It only takes ONE member of the polygamous marriage to have already contracted Aids and it will most likely infect the other FIVE members of the marriage.
In a normal marriage situation...if one member of the couple has Aids then it will most likely only infect the other party (ONE person).

The difference?
5 people with Aids compared to 2 people with Aids.
Therefore the disease has spread over double in the polygamous situation compared to the normal marriage system we have here.
And not one person has cheated in my hypothesis yet

You really are ignorant.....cultures which allow polygamy or more likely to have pre-marital sex? Last time I looked around Melbourne, pre-marital sex was rife in this town. Are you seriously telling me that our anti-polygomous nation is LESS likely to have pre-marital sex, because I would seriously like to see how we could possibly have more.

 

[barty boy]

going slightly off topic here,but just wondering why AIDS ,despite all the education over the last 20 years ,seems to be making a come back.

 

[Tiger74]

going slightly off topic here,but just wondering why AIDS ,despite all the education over the last 20 years ,seems to be making a come back.

in the west, its because people are getting complacent, esp with the meds now meaning you can live with HIV/AIDS for a long time compared to before.

in the third world, a lot of Govt's do a *smile* job educating prevention. Some people seriously believe a slice of lemon inserted is enough to prevent a woman getting the virus.

 

[Liverpool]

You really are ignorant.....cultures which allow polygamy or more likely to have pre-marital sex? Last time I looked around Melbourne, pre-marital sex was rife in this town. Are you seriously telling me that our anti-polygomous nation is LESS likely to have pre-marital sex, because I would seriously like to see how we could possibly have more.

That is the point Tiger74!
Lets say the same amount of people have pre-marital sex here compared to a city in Africa where polygamy is allowed.

If a person contracts Aids here and gets married....they are infected and will most likely infect their partner.
If a person contracts Aids in Africa and gets married....they are infected and will mostly likely infect the husband who will then in turn infect his other wives.

With so-called modernity, and its attendant globalization, the African cultural atmosphere has been riped open by the uncontrolled thunder of modernity, opening the floodgate to premarital sex and children resulting from it. And what was considered a cultural anomaly has been thrown to the winds. The result is a continent whose very soul is under siege from HIV/AIDS pandemic.
And so with so many young men and women falling over each other for premarital sex, the risk of contracting the AIDS virus and other STDs is on the upswing as never before throughout Africa, seeing the continent having the largest-12 million- HIV/AIDS infected population in the world; not counting 10 million orphans being churned out of homes every day.

http://www.expotimes.net/books/kempe.htm

Now add polygamy to this as another contributor and this is why Aids is rife in areas where polygamy is allowed....hence why some areas are banning polygamy.
Why would they ban polygamy if they, themselves, did not think it was a contributor to the spread of Aids???

 

[barty boy]

what is life expectancy now for a person with AIDS?can the disease now be managed to such an extent that they can more or less live a normal life?

 

[Tiger74]

And so with so many young men and women falling over each other for premarital sex, the risk of contracting the AIDS virus and other STDs is on the upswing as never before throughout Africa, seeing the continent having the largest-12 million- HIV/AIDS infected population in the world; not counting 10 million orphans being churned out of homes every day.[/i]

What school did you go to? Young people falling over each other to have sex before breakfast (let alone marriage) was like the number one subject of every person at my school. You were either getting it, or were wanting to get it (and most eventually did).

Did you seriously not see this as a kid?

 

[Tiger74]

what is life expectancy now for a person with AIDS?can the disease now be managed to such an extent that they can more or less live a normal life?

not sure, but where you were dead in 4-8 years before (off memory), now its longer. Modern meds apparently stall the on-set of full blown AIDS, which is what kills you.

This is why the third world is protesting the drug costs so much, they cannot afford them. Pity is prevention is cheaper and much more effective.

 

[Liverpool]

What school did you go to? Young people falling over each other to have sex before breakfast (let alone marriage) was like the number one subject of every person at my school. You were either getting it, or were wanting to get it (and most eventually did).
Did you seriously not see this as a kid?

More for you to read before having a crack at me personally:

As Malawi reveals, the African cultural practice of arranged marriage for very young girls, still fashionable in some parts of Africa, even when the girl knows or suspects the man (who may be the village chief or big man) she has been ordered to marry may be HIV/AIDS infected, she can't refuse to marry him and neither can she ask for protected sex.
Called the fisi system in Malawi, different African societies call it differently, this practice takes place at initiation ceremonies that announces a girl's adulthood soon after menarche. In their sex education at the initiation ceremony, girls are tested about how far they have learned sexual intercourse by arranging for an experienced man,fisi, to sneak at night into their camp and secretly have intercourse with them.
Should the fisi be HIV positive, he spread it to all the girls being initiated at that particular time. Another danger here is that most of these girls come from different villages and will spread the HIV given them by the fisi thereafter in their respective villages. The fisi system is also used for adult women too when their husbands are proven to be infertile. Here an arrangement is made where a man secretly have sexual intercourse with the wife so that she can have children.
There is another practice in which boys raid girls hut and have sex with them when both reach adolescence and sleep in their separate huts. In Malawi this is called Gwamula. Despite African adults disapproving of this practices, it is so common that there is no punishment. In the age of HIV/AIDS, this could easily spread the HIV virus among these adolescents.

http://www.expotimes.net/books/kempe.htm


Another example of pre-marital sex spreading Aids...yes?
Add polygamy to the equation....and you have a large contribution to how Aids has spread around the African continent.

So....why would they ban polygamy if they, themselves, did not think it was a contributor to the spread of Aids???

 

[Liverpool]

This is why the third world is protesting the drug costs so much, they cannot afford them. Pity is prevention is cheaper and much more effective.

Totally agree.....and why Band Aid back in the 80s should have sent boxes of condoms over with a manual on how to use them instead of pallets of food.
They may have been starving but they still churned the kids out into such a poor environment.

 

[barty boy]

I would imagine that family and religion are much stonger influences on ones life in many of these African nations,so cant understand why AIDS is rampant.I would assume that promiscuity would be severly frowned upon in many such places

 

[Tiger74]

More for you to read before having a crack at me personally:

As Malawi reveals, the African cultural practice of arranged marriage for very young girls, still fashionable in some parts of Africa, even when the girl knows or suspects the man (who may be the village chief or big man) she has been ordered to marry may be HIV/AIDS infected, she can't refuse to marry him and neither can she ask for protected sex.
Called the fisi system in Malawi, different African societies call it differently, this practice takes place at initiation ceremonies that announces a girl's adulthood soon after menarche. In their sex education at the initiation ceremony, girls are tested about how far they have learned sexual intercourse by arranging for an experienced man,fisi, to sneak at night into their camp and secretly have intercourse with them.
Should the fisi be HIV positive, he spread it to all the girls being initiated at that particular time. Another danger here is that most of these girls come from different villages and will spread the HIV given them by the fisi thereafter in their respective villages. The fisi system is also used for adult women too when their husbands are proven to be infertile. Here an arrangement is made where a man secretly have sexual intercourse with the wife so that she can have children.
There is another practice in which boys raid girls hut and have sex with them when both reach adolescence and sleep in their separate huts. In Malawi this is called Gwamula. Despite African adults disapproving of this practices, it is so common that there is no punishment. In the age of HIV/AIDS, this could easily spread the HIV virus among these adolescents.

http://www.expotimes.net/books/kempe.htm


Another example of pre-marital sex spreading Aids...yes?
Add polygamy to the equation....and you have a large contribution to how Aids has spread around the African continent.

So....why would they ban polygamy if they, themselves, did not think it was a contributor to the spread of Aids???

How does this example (sad I grant you) make pre-marital sex more common there than here?  As I asked you, do you seriously believe most of your year 12 class were NOT sexually active?

Polygamy is not a major side issue on this, its about having sex like its candy without protection.  Personally I don't give a stuff if you have sex before marriage 1400 times, just use a bloody condom.

 

[Tiger74]

Totally agree.....and why Band Aid back in the 80s should have sent boxes of condoms over with a manual on how to use them instead of pallets of food.
They may have been starving but they still churned the kids out into such a poor environment.

I would imagine that family and religion are much stonger influences on ones life in many of these African nations,so cant understand why AIDS is rampant.I would assume that promiscuity would be severly frowned upon in many such places

Two main reasons condoms are not used are idiot men ("I don't like 'em cause it feels unnatural"), and the Catholic and Evangelical Churches.

Idiot men are seriously stupid, and this has started one other sad trend, sex with kids. The reason Thai prostitutes are so young is because idiot men from Australia, UK, etc think that if you have sex with a virgin hooker, you want get AIDS. Problem is most their "virgin" hookers have been around the block more times than they have by the time they are 14. As I said, idiot men....

On the Churches, they still fight against condom use because they think selling faith and "saving yourself" is the God approved solution. Only problem is, when your young and there is a hot girl you are interested in.....that lecture you heard from a foreign churchman doesn't stay in the memory too long. Kids are horny, always have been and always will. I agree, try to teach them to "do the right thing" and wait, but at the same time let them know what to do to minimize risk if they decide not to.

 

[Liverpool]

How does this example (sad I grant you) make pre-marital sex more common there than here?

Where did I say pre-marital sex was more common in Africa than here???

I've never said that.

Time for another re-read, Tiger74:

Aids can spread in polygamous situations purely because the cultures where polygamy is common are also cultures where pre-marital sex is common also.

...see..never said it was MORE common there at all, did I?

Polygamy is a major side issue on this, its about having sex like its candy without protection.

Wait...surely that isn't an admission at last that polygamy is a contributor of Aids being spread now, is it?

Two main reasons condoms are not used are idiot men ("I don't like 'em cause it feels unnatural"), and the Catholic and Evangelical Churches.

Idiot men are seriously stupid, and this has started one other sad trend, sex with kids. The reason Thai prostitutes are so young is because idiot men from Australia, UK, etc think that if you have sex with a virgin hooker, you want get AIDS. Problem is most their "virgin" hookers have been around the block more times than they have by the time they are 14. As I said, idiot men....

On the Churches, they still fight against condom use because they think selling faith and "saving yourself" is the God approved solution. Only problem is, when your young and there is a hot girl you are interested in.....that lecture you heard from a foreign churchman doesn't stay in the memory too long. Kids are horny, always have been and always will. I agree, try to teach them to "do the right thing" and wait, but at the same time let them know what to do to minimize risk if they decide not to.

Totally agree... :clap

 

[Tiger74]

Wait...surely that isn't an admission at last that polygamy is a contributor of Aids being spread now, is it?

No admission, or conversion, missed a "not" I think (been on cold and flu meds all week )