Polygamy (Split from Christianity thread)

[Liverpool]

I think the law, for a start.
This is where many Islamic fundamentalists come unstuck, in that they believe their Sharia law is the law, and that our laws here (or other non-Sharia countries), mean nothing. This leads to contradictions and conflict.
A 'moderate' is someone who follows their religious texts, but does so within the letter of the law of that nation.
It is a choice.

I don't post often ont his thread and I was nearly going to place this on the racial tolerance thread but it may be more suited here.

Recognise polygamous marriages, says Sheikh Khalil Chami
June 24, 2008 07:10pm
MEMBERS of Sydney's Islamic community believe polygamous marriages should be recognised to protect the rights of women.
Sheikh Khalil Chami of the Islamic Welfare Centre in Lakemba today said polygamous marriages, although illegal, existed in Australia and should be recognised.
"... Not an open door but in a way everyone will have control," he told Triple J's Hack program.
"It's a bit hard, very difficult, but unless we face it, how (do) we overcome it?
"If you know there is law that will help you, there is community will help you. Why not? Why not change the law?"
Sheikh Chami said he was asked almost weekly to conduct polygamous religious ceremonies.
While he declined to perform such ceremonies, he said, other sheikhs did not.
"There are a lot of sheikhs here without any qualifications, without any place," he said.
"They'll conduct that marriage no problem at all."
Islamic Friendship Association of Australia president Keysar Trad said recognising polygamous unions would help protect the rights of women in the relationship.
Mr Trad once proposed to another woman with the consent of his wife, Hanefa, but the second marriage did not proceed.
"I certainly would not have entertained the thought of having a relationship without a religious marriage and I thought the relationship with that person was developing to the stage where we had become too friendly with each other," he told the program.
"Rather than entertain any thoughts of an affair I thought the only decent thing to do was to consider a proper commitment to that person.
"This idea of plural sexual relationships, it is not so much frowned upon by society as long as these people don't say we want a polygamous relationship."
Mr Trad's mother was a third wife in a polygamous relationship overseas and he said the women had admiration and respect for each other and supported each other.
"In a sense, it's a compliment to the original partner that if he didn't find marriage to be so good why would he go into it again," he said.
"In a sense, he's saying that his first wife has made life like heaven for him so he's willing to provide the same service, love and support to a second woman."
He said women were choosing to enter into such marriages.
Mrs Trad said many people in polygamous marriages kept it a secret - not only because it was illegal, but because society did not accept it.
"Tell you the truth, the hardest part of it (is) the way the others perceive it not what's happened between me and him," she said.
Asked if it was just about wanting sex with more women, she said: "Yeah it can be, but having it in the right way instead of having it in like go to prostitute or just date''.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23916409-661,00.html


If polygamous marriages here are ILLEGAL then surely the law here should act on such behaviour? ???
If priests of the Catholic denomination are expected to serve their faith within the confines of the laws of the land then surely the Islamic sheiks should be equally expected to abide by the laws of the land and not try and use their religion as some sort of alibi for their behaviour....or to try and change the law to suit their wants.

 

[Tiger74]

If polygamous marriages here are ILLEGAL then surely the law here should act on such behaviour? ???
If priests of the Catholic denomination are expected to serve their faith within the confines of the laws of the land then surely the Islamic sheiks should be equally expected to abide by the laws of the land and not try and use their religion as some sort of alibi for their behaviour....or to try and change the law to suit their wants.

You have forgotten one major issue Liverpool, the law is only breached IF a person signs two marriage certificates. If the marriage is purely a religious one, then the law doesn't give a stuff as its not a legal marriage.

 

[Six Pack]

Putting the law aside for one moment, Livers, what's your moral or ethical position on the concept of polygamy?

 

[Liverpool]

You have forgotten one major issue Liverpool, the law is only breached IF a person signs two marriage certificates. If the marriage is purely a religious one, then the law doesn't give a stuff as its not a legal marriage.

That is true...but my comment still stands because they are still pushing for OUR laws to change to suit THEIR wants.
People should not fall for the weak excuse of 'protecting women' either....I think the last line says it all really:

Asked if it was just about wanting sex with more women, she said: "Yeah it can be, but having it in the right way instead of having it in like go to prostitute or just date''.

Putting the law aside for one moment, Livers, what's your moral or ethical position on the concept of polygamy?

I think you know quite well what it is SixPack considering I spruiked it over and over again on the discussion about gays.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.....not a man and women, not a man and a man, not a woman and a woman, or a man and a goat, or any other manufactured guise.

So what is your ethical/moral thoughts on polygamy then?

 

[Disco08]

Marriage is between a man and a woman.....not a man and women, not a man and a man, not a woman and a woman, or a man and a goat, or any other manufactured guise.

Says who?

 

[Six Pack]

But according to the religious and customs of some people and cultures marriage can be between a man and more that one woman.

 

[Liverpool]

Says who?

The law.....the one thing we ALL have to abide by regardless of religion or personal agendas.

But according to the religious and customs of some people and cultures marriage can be between a man and more that one woman.

The prophet Mohammed married a 9 year old girl.....do you want us to allow that here too, SixPack?
or do you think the law should remain where such behaviour is classed as child abuse and/or child ponography and/or child rape?

 

[Six Pack]

I said forget about the law, Livers.

forget about the obvious examples of rape and porn and stuff.

What I asked you was whether you had a moral or ethical position on polygamy?

 

[Disco08]

The law.....the one thing we ALL have to abide by regardless of religion or personal agendas.

lol, as 6y said, he asked you not to consider the law, just the morality.

 

[Tiger74]

That is true...but my comment still stands because they are still pushing for OUR laws to change to suit THEIR wants.

If they are Australian citizens, they are entitled to push for THEIR laws to be changed, just as you are entitled to disagree and resist.

Part of being a democracy is accepting other people will have views different to you, and that they have a right to express them.

On this issue, they can and should ask for change if this is something that is a concern for them. Then the Govt can consider the value of this request (based upon social impacts and popular support) and act accordingly. $5 though this request goes nowhere.

Also this is not just a Muslim thing. Some Asian cultures allow polygamy, and it is actively encouraged in a number of Christian churches (from the Mormons down to those freaks who were recently arrested in Texas).

This shouldn't be on this thread though. It has nothing to do with Christianity, and is just your attempt yet again to whack a group who is not Liverpool.

 

[Liverpool]

I said forget about the law, Livers.
forget about the obvious examples of rape and porn and stuff.
What I asked you was whether you had a moral or ethical position on polygamy?

lol, as 6y said, he asked you not to consider the law, just the morality.

And I answered his question....time to remove the sunnies and put the readers on people:

I think you know quite well what it is SixPack considering I spruiked it over and over again on the discussion about gays.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.....not a man and women, not a man and a man, not a woman and a woman, or a man and a goat, or any other manufactured guise.

So what is your ethical/moral thoughts on polygamy then?

I think my comment clearly stated that I am against polygamy.

I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Now time for you both to answer my question....so what is your ethical/moral thoughts on polygamy then?

 

[Six Pack]

You haven't explained why.

 

[Disco08]

And I answered his question....time to remove the sunnies and put the readers on people:

I think my comment clearly stated that I am against polygamy.

I don't think I can make it any clearer.

Now time for you both to answer my question....so what is your ethical/moral thoughts on polygamy then?

If a person or people want to do something and it has no ill effects on other people or creatures then I am all for letting them do it. Polygamy would fit into that category.

Also, you didn't make it clear at all. 6y asked you to look at the situation without bringing the law into it. You stated that marriage can only be between a man and a women and when I asked 'according to who?', you replied 'the law'. Don't you see how dumb this is?

If the law was suddenly changed to allow marriage between more than two people and people of the same sex would you suddenly change your opinion that these things are 'wrong'?

 

[Liverpool]

You haven't explained why.

Even though I am not overtly religious, I still have the belief that marriage is a vow between a man and a woman.
Polygamy is against that belief.

If a person or people want to do something and it has no ill effects on other people or creatures then I am all for letting them do it. Polygamy would fit into that category.
Also, you didn't make it clear at all. 6y asked you to look at the situation without bringing the law into it. You stated that marriage can only be between a man and a women and when I asked 'according to who?', you replied 'the law'. Don't you see how dumb this is?
If the law was suddenly changed to allow marriage between more than two people and people of the same sex would you suddenly change your opinion that these things are 'wrong'?

It isn't just the law though.....it is a social standard and what the majority of this population accepts.
All the law does it put in place the standard or benchmark that society is to abide by.

Secondly, there is no need for polygamy to begin with.
The statement from Keyser Trad about being in a polygamous situation allowing him to have sex without having to go to a prostitute to get it is ridiculous.
If you want sex with a lot of different women....simple...DO NOT get married!

 

[evo]

Polygamy is fine by me.

Although I don't know why you'd want to.

I have enough problems dissapointing one wife.

 

[Six Pack]

Even though I am not overtly religious, I still have the belief that marriage is a vow between a man and a woman.
Polygamy is against that belief.

but some religions would encourage and support polygamy, so being religious cuts both ways on this one.

 

[Liverpool]

Polygamy is fine by me.
Although I don't know why you'd want to.
I have enough problems dissapointing one wife.

:hihi

but some religions would encourage and support polygamy, so being religious cuts both ways on this one.

I agree Sixpack....that is why we have a thing called the LAW....

 

[Six Pack]

sighs

 

[Disco08]

Agreed.

Even though I am not overtly religious, I still have the belief that marriage is a vow between a man and a woman.
Polygamy is against that belief.

It isn't just the law though.....it is a social standard and what the majority of this population accepts.
All the law does it put in place the standard or benchmark that society is to abide by.

Secondly, there is no need for polygamy to begin with.
The statement from Keyser Trad about being in a polygamous situation allowing him to have sex without having to go to a prostitute to get it is ridiculous.
If you want sex with a lot of different women....simple...DO NOT get married!

You're not making any sense. Tell us why you think it is wrong morally, and try and give us some decent reasoning, not just 'I have a belief'. That *smile* doesn't fly on the Christianity thread.

 

[Liverpool]

sighs

You can sigh all you like....but the law overrides the desires of religions.

Sure, practice your faith in peace....and I've always stated that Islamic people who come to this country have been given the freedom to practice their faith in peace.
However, they have to realise that their religion, no matter how important they deem it to be, does not override the laws of this country.

Agreed.
You're not making any sense. Tell us why you think it is wrong morally, and try and give us some decent reasoning, not just 'I have a belief'. That sh!t doesn't fly on the Christianity thread.

Frankly, I don't give a *smile* whether it flies or not with you self opinionated morally superior beings.
Call me old-fashioned, loyal, traditional...but I was brought up with the fact that marriage is something between a man and a woman.
Any other union is manufactured and is a lesser union.
I've stated my reasons before on this regarding nature, biology, and science.
The majority of the human race as well as the animal kingdom also shows that a male/female union is the surperior union to keep a race going....and logic would dictate that if a male/female union is superior in this case, then a man/woman marriage is also the ultimate when it comes to marriage.

Now to polygamy.....as I have stated...call me old fashioned or traditional....but marriage vows are important and are aimed at the PERSON you are pledging your life to....not PEOPLE.
How can someone do this...and then do it again with another, and another, and another.....it makes the vows a mockery, if you ask me.
In fact, it reminds me of the 'dual citizenship' garbage where people are pledging their allegiance to a country, hopping on a plane, and pledging their allegiance to another country....what a farce...but that is a story for another thread...