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Poll: Is it too early to call "Season Over?"
- Thread starter Ian4
- Start date
How many times have we beaten west coast in Perth in 35 years? At a guess i would say 3 or 4. I still griamce when i think of last year.
None of the next 4 are guaranteed and even if you added those you’ve named who were playing round 1 we lost that one.
Over finished goneski
Play kids and just empty the cupboards in October.
We need a freshen up.
Imagine the shitt will Would be getting if we didn't win the 3 flags.
Worse then Nth & WC are stats
Play kids and just empty the cupboards in October.
We need a freshen up.
Imagine the shitt will Would be getting if we didn't win the 3 flags.
Worse then Nth & WC are stats
Unfortunately our season and dynasty is over. It was a fun ride.
This is how I see our rise and fall -
As long as I can remember I've always perceived us as a team that relied heavily on guts and determination to win games. Our game style has mostly been a long bomb to the forward line without much precision and skill when compared to other teams who seemed to possess more skilled players and a better overall game plan.
Wallace tried to implement some skill and outside flair but this backfired as we didn't have the list and our way of playing was too ingrained in our players.
Hardwick came along and implemented a full ground defensive mindset and the graph started to go in the right direction, however we were unable to unlock games and remained in a holding pattern up to 2016.
In the background during this time however we were recruiting players with pace and intensity which eventually set us up for a smash and grab at 3 flags.
2017 came along and due to the inability of Griffiths and Vickery (who was traded at the end of 2016) to perform as key forwards, we stumbled upon a key factor to our success which was a small, fast and dynamic forward line that applied pressure and chaos that has never been seen before.
Our A graders Martin, Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Edwards, and supporting crew Grimes, Astbury, Houli, Grigg, Prestia, Lambert etc. all were hitting peak form at the right time. This along with our full ground defensive set ups, and dynamic forward line created the perfect storm.
During the next 4 years we were brutal winning 3 flags. We pummeled the opposition heavily relying on a highly taxing game style of hard running and fierce pressure. This couldn't be maintained for too long unless we recruited players with similar physical attributes (which we didn't) and replaced our A-Graders (which we couldn't).
Kane Lambert is an interesting player. He was overlooked in many drafts as he was a scrappy hard at it player which clubs didn't see alot of AFL traits in. BUT he was perfect for us at the time we recruited him and alot of people saw him as our barometer during this period.
The rule change accelerated our demise, however it would have come regardless. Our reliance on a heavy taxing game plan could never be maintained for more than 4-5 years especially when our A graders started to age. Our recruiting during this period also didn't help.
Compare this to Geelong who play a precise, slow, methodical game plan where speed and manic pressure wasn't key to their limited success and you can see why they've been able to hang around at the top for so long while we are falling only after 4 years.
The past 4 years feels like a smash and grab and we're lucky we grabbed the 3 flags when we did. Unfortunately I see us falling down the ladder significantly now.
What I will find interesting is what direction we go in, as I believe we're at a crossroads. Do we persist with what brought us 3 flags or do we fundamentally change our DNA. Perhaps a mixture of both is required.
Me personally I'm happy and content in seeing 3 flags when I thought I'd never see one in my life. Our downfall and the ridiculous rule changes and umpiring and the frustrating ticketing system has unfortunately seen my interest for the game diminish. Used to watch 3 to 4 games a week, now lucky to watch any in addition to ours.
The good news is that the 2021 draft feels like a new beginning and hopefully we can turn it around quickly.
Go Tiges.
This is how I see our rise and fall -
As long as I can remember I've always perceived us as a team that relied heavily on guts and determination to win games. Our game style has mostly been a long bomb to the forward line without much precision and skill when compared to other teams who seemed to possess more skilled players and a better overall game plan.
Wallace tried to implement some skill and outside flair but this backfired as we didn't have the list and our way of playing was too ingrained in our players.
Hardwick came along and implemented a full ground defensive mindset and the graph started to go in the right direction, however we were unable to unlock games and remained in a holding pattern up to 2016.
In the background during this time however we were recruiting players with pace and intensity which eventually set us up for a smash and grab at 3 flags.
2017 came along and due to the inability of Griffiths and Vickery (who was traded at the end of 2016) to perform as key forwards, we stumbled upon a key factor to our success which was a small, fast and dynamic forward line that applied pressure and chaos that has never been seen before.
Our A graders Martin, Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Edwards, and supporting crew Grimes, Astbury, Houli, Grigg, Prestia, Lambert etc. all were hitting peak form at the right time. This along with our full ground defensive set ups, and dynamic forward line created the perfect storm.
During the next 4 years we were brutal winning 3 flags. We pummeled the opposition heavily relying on a highly taxing game style of hard running and fierce pressure. This couldn't be maintained for too long unless we recruited players with similar physical attributes (which we didn't) and replaced our A-Graders (which we couldn't).
Kane Lambert is an interesting player. He was overlooked in many drafts as he was a scrappy hard at it player which clubs didn't see alot of AFL traits in. BUT he was perfect for us at the time we recruited him and alot of people saw him as our barometer during this period.
The rule change accelerated our demise, however it would have come regardless. Our reliance on a heavy taxing game plan could never be maintained for more than 4-5 years especially when our A graders started to age. Our recruiting during this period also didn't help.
Compare this to Geelong who play a precise, slow, methodical game plan where speed and manic pressure wasn't key to their limited success and you can see why they've been able to hang around at the top for so long while we are falling only after 4 years.
The past 4 years feels like a smash and grab and we're lucky we grabbed the 3 flags when we did. Unfortunately I see us falling down the ladder significantly now.
What I will find interesting is what direction we go in, as I believe we're at a crossroads. Do we persist with what brought us 3 flags or do we fundamentally change our DNA. Perhaps a mixture of both is required.
Me personally I'm happy and content in seeing 3 flags when I thought I'd never see one in my life. Our downfall and the ridiculous rule changes and umpiring and the frustrating ticketing system has unfortunately seen my interest for the game diminish. Used to watch 3 to 4 games a week, now lucky to watch any in addition to ours.
The good news is that the 2021 draft feels like a new beginning and hopefully we can turn it around quickly.
Go Tiges.
Agree. One of the best Ive seen on PRE recently.
To answer the philosophical question about whether we stay with our DNA or change, I agree a mixture of both but:
1. What was our DNA being pressure game, particularly in the forward half has disappeared. I still think there is a role to play in the modern game for this attribute. How do we get it back? Interestingly, our VFL team is high up in the rankings for tackles and pressure. We just don't seem to be able to replicate it at AFL level
2. We need more pace in the midfield and forward.
3. If we compare our current team ( or that played last week) to our 2019 GF team, the following changes can be seen:
Out:
Grimes
Astbury
Houli
Belllis
Caddy
Lambert
Dusty
Soldo
In:
Tarrant
Gibcus
Ross
RCD
Parker
Dow
Mansell
Graham
Grimes, Dusty, Lambert and maybe Soldo come back in at some point so Astbury, Houli, Bellis, Caddy have been replaced by Tarrant/Gibcus, Ross, Mansell and Graham. That's not a big enough turnover of players to say we've lost the nucleus of our list. IMO, it's an ageing and/or lack of motivation issue. We need a refresh of the list to bring in more youthful exuberance.
4. Our delivery into the forward line is dismal both last year and so far this year. That is an important skill in the modern game. We need better kickers into forward 50 and a better functioning group of forwards that create space for each other to lead into, understand where the ball is going to be kicked and likely to drop etc
I want to contrast Harry's post above (which i largely agree with) with this extract from an old RFC article. It goes to show the clubs strategy for continued success.
5 of this list have left the club for another: Chol, Higgins, CCJ, Markov, Butler.
1 was delisted, but has had a reprieve as a last ditch rookie with WCE
10 are still on the list
6 aren't in the AFL anymore
Richmond will enter the 2019 season with half its playing group aged 22 or under – Liam Baker, Noah Balta, Shai Bolton, Dan Butler, Jason Castagna, Mabior Chol, Callum Coleman-Jones, Derek Eggmolesse-Smith, Ryan Garthwaite, Jack Graham, Jack Higgins, Oleg Markov, Connor Menadue, Ben Miller, Callum Moore, Patrick Naish, Daniel Rioli, Ivan Soldo, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Jack Ross, Fraser Turner and Luke English.
16 out of the 22 are still in the AFL, after 4 years. That's not a bad effort with recruiting from where we were. We just haven't had access to the elite, A graders at the top end. Therein lies the rub.
I agree with Harry. Our drop off is going to be pretty quick, likely because we didn't have overall depth of A graders of other clubs, largely because we rebuilt in the middle of GCS and GWS picking the eyes out of the draft during our premiership list build. Unlike the Hawks, or Cats, who's era started pre expansion, we've had to use free agency, trades and rookies to build.
The fact we created a Dynasty in that environment has shown what a generational quality job the club undertook to get us there.
Other clubs like Melbourne and Carlton have been propped up and spoilt by the AFL. They've tanked their way to a list full of potential a-grade quality youth.
The club have tried to position us for longevity. They planned an era against the odds. It's looking like it's not going to happen, at least not in 2022.
I think the decline will come quick, and hard. But we were bloody spoilt along the way. We did it the hard way. Which is why our dynasty has been so exceptional. Kudos Tigers, and thanks.
5 of this list have left the club for another: Chol, Higgins, CCJ, Markov, Butler.
1 was delisted, but has had a reprieve as a last ditch rookie with WCE
10 are still on the list
6 aren't in the AFL anymore
Richmond will enter the 2019 season with half its playing group aged 22 or under – Liam Baker, Noah Balta, Shai Bolton, Dan Butler, Jason Castagna, Mabior Chol, Callum Coleman-Jones, Derek Eggmolesse-Smith, Ryan Garthwaite, Jack Graham, Jack Higgins, Oleg Markov, Connor Menadue, Ben Miller, Callum Moore, Patrick Naish, Daniel Rioli, Ivan Soldo, Riley Collier-Dawkins, Jack Ross, Fraser Turner and Luke English.
16 out of the 22 are still in the AFL, after 4 years. That's not a bad effort with recruiting from where we were. We just haven't had access to the elite, A graders at the top end. Therein lies the rub.
I agree with Harry. Our drop off is going to be pretty quick, likely because we didn't have overall depth of A graders of other clubs, largely because we rebuilt in the middle of GCS and GWS picking the eyes out of the draft during our premiership list build. Unlike the Hawks, or Cats, who's era started pre expansion, we've had to use free agency, trades and rookies to build.
The fact we created a Dynasty in that environment has shown what a generational quality job the club undertook to get us there.
Other clubs like Melbourne and Carlton have been propped up and spoilt by the AFL. They've tanked their way to a list full of potential a-grade quality youth.
The club have tried to position us for longevity. They planned an era against the odds. It's looking like it's not going to happen, at least not in 2022.
I think the decline will come quick, and hard. But we were bloody spoilt along the way. We did it the hard way. Which is why our dynasty has been so exceptional. Kudos Tigers, and thanks.
Despite the fact we lost to Melbourne, they kicked a lower score than usual, they were less accurate partly as a result of our forcing them wide and applying pressure, and we weren't out of that game for long periods.
Pressure still works.
But the game evolves.
Which is why I reckon a mixture of pressure and precision is the way to go. That looks to be what we are recruiting for and after a golden period comes the fall. At least we got 3 flags as part of the process.
Recruiting while at the top is damned hard, it is supposed to be hard, and we haven't had the high draft picks. But we are going to get better draft picks and can rebuild from here.
Oh, and if we got free kicks on the same basis as our opposition it might help too
DS
Pressure still works.
But the game evolves.
Which is why I reckon a mixture of pressure and precision is the way to go. That looks to be what we are recruiting for and after a golden period comes the fall. At least we got 3 flags as part of the process.
Recruiting while at the top is damned hard, it is supposed to be hard, and we haven't had the high draft picks. But we are going to get better draft picks and can rebuild from here.
Oh, and if we got free kicks on the same basis as our opposition it might help too
DS
Agree with everything except "might"Despite the fact we lost to Melbourne, they kicked a lower score than usual, they were less accurate partly as a result of our forcing them wide and applying pressure, and we weren't out of that game for long periods.
Pressure still works.
But the game evolves.
Which is why I reckon a mixture of pressure and precision is the way to go. That looks to be what we are recruiting for and after a golden period comes the fall. At least we got 3 flags as part of the process.
Recruiting while at the top is damned hard, it is supposed to be hard, and we haven't had the high draft picks. But we are going to get better draft picks and can rebuild from here.
Oh, and if we got free kicks on the same basis as our opposition it might help too
DS
Four.
We are 0-2 at Perth Stadium and 4-14 at Subiaco. Won in 2001, 2008, 2013 and 2014.
19-27 v West Coast everywhere.
The first red flag was round 3 v Sydney. We were 2-0, they had finished 15th and 16th the previous two seasons, and we were 40 points down at half time.
A real WTF moment.
Season never really recovered after that.
