Poll: East West Link

[MB78]

Public transport? These tossers act like Melbourne is a compact European city; not an urban sprawl city of 4.5 million that in geographical area is the 2nd or 3rd largest in the world behind LA and about the same as Sydney. Yes we need a good PT system but we also need to develop the road network to cope with the geographical scope of the city. The urban sprawl has been happening for over 50 years; some may think it's regrettable but it's what we have and we need serious infrastructure to deal with it.

Although I wouldn't put it that blunt. We still need a plan for roads. Rural Vic are not able to use the public transport. I challenge all people who are against East West link to travel to rural Vic and come up with some suggestions. We need a plan for all of Victoria not just Melb.

 

[Ridley]

I wouldn't be surprised if the EW contract isn't worth the paper it's written on and the Libs have only been bluffing and bullying.

If he is serious about tearing up the contract I truly hope that is the case. The last thing Victoria, or any state for that matter, needs is a $1billion plus payout. Simply can not afford it.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

Although I wouldn't put it that blunt. We still need a plan for roads. Rural Vic are not able to use the public transport. I challenge all people who are against East West link to travel to rural Vic and come up with some suggestions. We need a plan for all of Victoria not just Melb.

Fast trains. Seriously. Linking up the country centres with Sydney and Melbourne. Instead of a 2.5hr car commute from your McMansion on which you are over-extendended in deep outer Melbourne, you buy a nice house with a bit of land for half the price and get on a train in Bendigo and you're in Melbourne in and hour. Helps youth unemployment, invigorates rural towns, cuts pollution, curtails urban sprawl.

 

[martyshire]

Public transport? These tossers act like Melbourne is a compact European city; not an urban sprawl city of 4.5 million that in geographical area is the 2nd or 3rd largest in the world behind LA and about the same as Sydney. Yes we need a good PT system but we also need to develop the road network to cope with the geographical scope of the city. The urban sprawl has been happening for over 50 years; some may think it's regrettable but it's what we have and we need serious infrastructure to deal with it.

You're right about the urban sprawl but IMO wrong about the solution.

Even if population growth and urban sprawl were a constant (they're not, they've been getting faster in recent years), then logically each decade of urban sprawl is harder to keep up with than the previous decade in terms of road infrastructure, because each wave of extra cars being catered for are travelling further and taking up more road space for more time. If you thought the last ten years were bad as far as clogging up our roads (which they were), then wait for the next ten years!

We are stuffed. EW link is not going to solve this. Another 4 freeways won't solve this. They'll be expensive, and they'll change the city a lot, but they won't solve it. It's like people want to cure haemophilia with band aids.

If we want a bigger city (that's debatable but both major parties seem to) then we need a change of mindset. Build me a train to Rowville and I'll get off your freeway.

 

[K3]

Although I wouldn't put it that blunt. We still need a plan for roads. Rural Vic are not able to use the public transport. I challenge all people who are against East West link to travel to rural Vic and come up with some suggestions. We need a plan for all of Victoria not just Melb.

As someone who lived in Wonthaggi for half a decade, commuting for lots of it, the 2-4 hour drive to Elsternwick of a morning would have been great to replace on the train. Were their trains nearby? Nope, closest were Pakenham and then Cranbourne, but there used to be a train which went down to Port Welshpool, via Koo Wee Rup, Korrumburra, Leongatha and Foster (Wilsons Prom). A train line which was killed off by Kennette I believe. Then there was the train line which went to Wonthaggi, via Bass (quick access to Phillip Island). Both of these going shut that part of the country down in an instant. As I drove up to town each morning I would see the same people yawning in the same cars. The yawning was having to leave home around 5.45am to feel reasonably sure of getting to work by 9am. This, to me, is an example of why the Nationals are going backwards as a political force. The Libs, along with Labor, has shown scant consideration for anyone outside the major centres and people are getting well sick of it! Both major parties just take them for granted and probably plan on not winning those large electorates, but instead focusing on the many little ones around the metropolises. What was the swing against the Libs in Shep'... 31% ish?

Fast trains. Seriously. Linking up the country centres with Sydney and Melbourne. Instead of a 2.5hr car commute from your McMansion on which you are over-extendended in deep outer Melbourne, you buy a nice house with a bit of land for half the price and get on a train in Bendigo and you're in Melbourne in and hour. Helps youth unemployment, invigorates rural towns, cuts pollution, curtails urban sprawl.

The Govt had made some progress in putting big work contracts in regional centres, which we certainly need even more of buuut, there is no real way for people outside of those areas to go for jobs there. Why Geelong, Bendigo, Ballarat, Shepparton, Albury, Bairnsdale etc aren't connected to the CBD by fast trains is just beyond me. Wee are decades behind the rest of the world in our use of mass transport.

If he is serious about tearing up the contract I truly hope that is the case. The last thing Victoria, or any state for that matter, needs is a $1billion plus payout. Simply can not afford it.

What about Toeknee pulling back the offer of $3 billion of 'infrastructure' money, of which $1.5 billion has already been paid to the Libs in Vic? The Fed Libs don't really want to help Victorians to get around easier, through the building of suitable infrastructure, they are playing pathetic politics to try and push votes to other Liberals.

 

[KnightersRevenge]

You're right about the urban sprawl but IMO wrong about the solution.

Even if population growth and urban sprawl were a constant (they're not, they've been getting faster in recent years), then logically each decade of urban sprawl is harder to keep up with than the previous decade in terms of road infrastructure, because each wave of extra cars being catered for are travelling further and taking up more road space for more time. If you thought the last ten years were bad as far as clogging up our roads (which they were), then wait for the next ten years!

We are stuffed. EW link is not going to solve this. Another 4 freeways won't solve this. They'll be expensive, and they'll change the city a lot, but they won't solve it. It's like people want to cure haemophilia with band aids.

If we want a bigger city (that's debatable but both major parties seem to) then we need a change of mindset. Build me a train to Rowville and I'll get off your freeway.

Yup, the inner/greater city rail system needs to be expanded to suit a city with a population of its size. Mass transit is essential in a vibrant modern city. But the industry that would build up around the rural hubs can only be imagined. It would have benefits at the hubs as well as giving rural fast access to the metropolitan capitals. It works at both ends IMO. The modern style of government is to treat it like business. It isn't. You can't run a state like a business. State government exists to provide services to the populace. Health, education, transport, culture etc. Not only over the next 3 years, but over the next 100 years. Private enterprise WILL NEVER build the infrastructure we need but government stopped leading on these nation building projects decades ago.

 

[Ian4]

Public transport? These tossers act like Melbourne is a compact European city; not an urban sprawl city of 4.5 million that in geographical area is the 2nd or 3rd largest in the world behind LA and about the same as Sydney. Yes we need a good PT system but we also need to develop the road network to cope with the geographical scope of the city. The urban sprawl has been happening for over 50 years; some may think it's regrettable but it's what we have and we need serious infrastructure to deal with it.

i agree. thats why public transport infrastructure must be built/fixed before a road tunnel.

If he is serious about tearing up the contract I truly hope that is the case. The last thing Victoria, or any state for that matter, needs is a $1billion plus payout. Simply can not afford it.

i don't think it will be the case, but if it is, it will be napthines fault.

What about Toeknee pulling back the offer of $3 billion of 'infrastructure' money

if abbott does this, he will be committing electoral suicide in victoria. he said himself that the state election was a referendum on the EW link. his referendum lost. the people have spoken, so that money needs to be diverted to another victorian project (ie. the metro rail tunnel).

 

[tigers80]

The interesting point that people have forgotten is that the Federal Government money that FIBERALS Took and decided to build a tunnel was in fact for the Metro Tunnel, but Mr Rabbott decided that as the infrastructure PM He was building roads and more roads..
Tear it up Dan and see how the Rabbott goes about demanding the money back, his colleagues will be mighty nervous come next Fed election, how will this sit with Victorian taxpayers, a PM taking our money back because we aren't building his great BIG tunnel..
Interesting times for all concerned.

 

[IanG]

As someone who lived in Wonthaggi for half a decade, commuting for lots of it, the 2-4 hour drive to Elsternwick of a morning would have been great to replace on the train. Were their trains nearby? Nope, closest were Pakenham and then Cranbourne, but there used to be a train which went down to Port Welshpool, via Koo Wee Rup, Korrumburra, Leongatha and Foster (Wilsons Prom). A train line which was killed off by Kennette I believe. Then there was the train line which went to Wonthaggi, via Bass (quick access to Phillip Island). Both of these going shut that part of the country down in an instant.

I've driven to the Foster and Port Welshpool area a few times in recent years and its sad the decline especially since its essentially the gateway to Wilsons Prom and is a nice area.

 

[Ian4]

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/victorian-taxpayers-face-massive-east-west-link-compensation-bill-contract-or-not-20150205-1379ob.html

Victorian taxpayers face massive East West Link compensation bill, contract or not
February 5, 2015 - 9:41PM, Josh Gordon, Benjamin Preiss

Victorian taxpayers are facing a massive East West Link compensation bill – even if a court renders the contract for the $6.8 billion road invalid.

In a high-stakes political gamble, former treasurer Michael O'Brien on Thursday released a previously secret "side letter" reassuring the East West Connect consortium that it would get its money regardless of whether a valid contract exists.

The need for the extraordinary guarantee was triggered by publication of a report in The Age in September last year revealing Labor intended to dump the project if it won the election. To make that case, Labor relied on high-level legal advice to claim the contract was "unenforceable" because of a looming court case waged by the Yarra and Moreland councils.

The Age also revealed the East West Connect consortium threatened to walk away from the project through fear it would be dumped if Labor won, prompting the Department of Treasury and Finance to recommend the side letter for reassurance.

Mr O'Brien's letter to the consortium, signed exactly two months before the November 29 election, highlights the lengths the former government was prepared to go to to lock the deal in before the election.

"I declare on behalf of the State if the Supreme Court of Victoria or other court … makes a declaration … such that the Project Agreement is void or otherwise unenforceable, then the State will pay to EWC one or more amounts by way of compensation," the letter says.

Treasurer Tim Pallas claimed the side letter represented "an act of treachery and treason" proving the former government was always aware the contract for the project was shaky.

"It is an obscenity, it is a contortion of public policy and good pubic interest protection," Mr Pallas said. "The fact is there was considerable uncertainty, uncertainty that went directly towards the protection of the Victorian taxpayers' interests."

Mr O'Brien remains adamant that the side letter was only necessary to reassure the consortium, arguing the former government was always confident its contract, signed just weeks before the November 29 election, was legally valid and completely watertight.

"The letter simply provides an assurance that the government will honour the termination provisions of the contract and provides no additional benefit whatsoever to the East West Connect," Mr O'Brien said.

He confirmed that the consortium had asked for the letter after Mr Andrews' claimed the contract was not valid and promised to dump the project.

To make the point, on Thursday, Mr O'Brien also released legal advice provided by top commercial lawyer Allan Myers, QC. It found the former government had "executive powers" to enter into the contract.

Labor has repeatedly claimed the contract for the project is "not worth of the paper it is written on". Despite this, it is now locked in negotiations with the consortium over an appropriate level of compensation, which is expected to be as high as $1.1 billion.

Associate Professor Ken Coghill, a former state MP and now director of the Monash Governance Research Unit, said it was very unusual for a government to issue a side letter promising compensation for a project that might not proceed.

"It really is highly irregular and very suspicious," he said. "They should never have considered making an assurance like that."

Professor Coghill said it was inappropriate for the Coalition to commit to paying compensation without a public debate first. "It should have been raised publicly in Parliament before the Parliament was dissolved for the caretaker period."

what a dirty dirty deal. this is criminal sabotage by the former state govt and we all should be outraged. i feel sick.

 

[AngryAnt]

Corruption of the worst sort.

And it's our money they are throwing at big business to placate them. The last state Liberal government were an absolute disgrace.

 

[Baloo]

I cant work out what was in it for Michael O'Brien to release that letter of guarantee

 

[spook]

The ALP govt should sue the Liberal Party on behalf of the taxpayer.

 

[Brodders17]

Corruption of the worst sort.

And it's our money they are throwing at big business to placate them. The last state Liberal government were an absolute disgrace.

The last Vic Lib government was a disgrace. The last Qld Lib government was a disgrace. The current Nt Lib gov is a disgrace. The current Fed Lib gov is a disgrace.
And they will all only last 1 term.

 

[Baloo]

While it may be true, I dont think the alternative is that different

 

[Tigers of Old]

The ALP govt should sue the Liberal Party on behalf of the taxpayer.

That's it. Bankrupt the bastards.

 

[Ian4]

you are the weakest EW link. goodbye.

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[Tigers of Old]

A third of the initial total dollars that were being bandied about.
It's a lot of money still, curse the Libs for penning the deal on the verge of the election.

 

[1eyedtiger]

Bacially, the Naptime government rushed through and signed the deal to ensure that their rich business partners got paid either way. There needs to be a royal commission held to investigate this. It's just blatant corruption.

 

[Baloo]

Cetrtainly smells more worthy of a royal commission than the roof insulation scheme does.