MILLERS ARTICLE HERALD SUN!

[wanderer]

Well said gang - definitely going to print this one off and take it tomorrow nigth if that's OK ???

Please Do! Personally I thought the article had some reasoning behind it, but I would have thought we'd all have a bit of patience as long as we can see a long-term plan and genuine steps forward.

I actually think it's pretty offensive to tell the membership base to simply hand over the $$'s and shut their traps - it's OUR club, if anything we've been lapse in not holding the administration accountable enough.

It was not the supporters who implemented short-term recruiting policies of getting players such as Hudson, Houlihan, Fleming, Nicholls to the club.

It wasn't supporters who have constantly fumbled on draft day, and consistently paid over the odds at the trade table.

It wasn't supporters who forced Richmond to go into the season 3 players short due to excessive contracts to certain players forcing us to the brink of salary cap breaches.

It wasn't the supporters who failed to play finals football 18 out of the last 20 years.

But it was supporters who have constantly kept Richmond right up there in terms of Membership numbers and attendance figures. It's quite amazing that we have maintained such high numbers in comparison to the level of success which clearly places us last amoungst all Victorian Clubs over the last 20 years.

I think Miller should start thinking before he starts talking.

The failings have been at Punt Road with the people he works with, not the people who hand over their hard-earned for the "privilege" of watching our beloved Tigers play.

 

[gustiger12]

Well I know this will cause some controversy amongst the contributors on this list, but I am going to play devils advocate here to a degree.

Personally I think MILLER called it pretty correctly. I don't think he was out of line with his comments as I don't think that he was laying all the blame at the supporters feet. Well as least not all of it. But what he is saying is that if we don't get behind the club in this cut throat environment we will be back to the days of the "Save our Skins" campaign again. Who wants that. I for one don't. We must remember that there is more to running and administering a football club that just the salary cap. This is what increase membership is about.

Much of his argument is valid in that the reason why the RFC has gone in pursuit of the band aid solution year after year is because of the ferals that exit amongst our supporters. I am not saying that we haven't suffered enough over the last 20 years, but what are abusive emails to the club going to achieve. Does anyone really offer a viable solution. As KL has said in the past the reason we are where we are as far as recruiting quality proven coaches goes, is a direct result of our willingness to sack coaches. We have put ourselves into a catch 22 situation here to some degree.

Anyone who doesn't think we have showed signs of improvement over the off season is being short sighted IMHO. We have recruited MILLER, JOHNSON and BLUMMFIELD for a start. Now I am sure that if this had been predicted at the end of last year then most would have been extremely pleased by these developments. I know I was and I still believe that we are yet to realise the true benefits of these moves

As MILLER quite rightly points out, in the current climate, things cannot change over night, it will take time. We have been hamstrung by previous administrations decisions to award wonderful contract to players like DAFFY and BOURKE and are still paying the price for this.

As the director of Football Operations he is not going to come out and publicly criticise the coaching panel or anyone else for that matter, but after reading some of the posts on this forum I can understand his dismay at some of the emails the club has probably received. Now let me say here that everyone is entitled to have an opinion and I for one was not overly happy with the result of Friday nights effort, but we must remember they were runners up last year and to lose by 28 points was no disgrace. Just look at some of the other results over the weekend. In fact I agree with most of what has been said about game plans and the forward structure, but what are we to achieve by sending feral emails to the club and calling for the coaches head after Round 1. Lets all rembember that is only round 1 after all. We were clearly underdone so lets wait and see how the first four or five rounds pan out. After all, this just adds credence to the common misconception that all tiger fans are feral. And don't we all scream when we are branded as ferals. Laff was quite correct in his post in saying that some of those that have defended FRAWLEY have been quick to change their views as a result of MILLERS comments. Lets take it on the chin and realise that all he is asking is that we get behind the Tigers for a change instead of beying for blood every second week.

At the end of the day MILLER is an administrator with premiership experience and a reputation for getting PLAYERS to a club that most can't. He might have only been at the club a short time, but I for one am prepared to give him the chance to start to turn things around. Lets at least give him the chance to do that.

The season is a lot longer than round 1 after all. If at the end of Round 22 things haven't changed I believe that MILLER is the best person to ensure that the CORRECT changes are made in the best interest of the RFC.. I believe that he is probably the best Administrator we have had at the club since the legendary GR, but we will need to give him time to show his value.

I noted the comments about his attitude mirroring that of Clinton CASEY when he first came to the club, but the difference is that CASEY has never been an administrator at a club that has won multiple premierships.

Everyone is screaming for hard decisions and when he makes a call that some find harsh they are quick to attack him and label it as misdirected. Yes I have been a member for a long time, including the last four years, when I have been working overseas and with no hope of seeing a game live. Why because I believe we need to support our beloved Tigers regardless of what we perceive to be right or wrong. Infact I am probably a worse loser than most on this forum, in fact I hate losing, but I keep going back for more. At the end of the day I did not find anything Greg MILLER said to be personally offensive. I must admit though that I am mindful of the fact that it was SHEEHAN who wrote the article and he has been known to use the odd throw away line for impact in the past.

If I could offer a more qualified opinion or strategy than those that are in charge I would, but I have no delusions about my expertise in this area and will leave that to those that are entrusted with running the club.

Yes I do agree that 20 years is a long time and things have been poorly handled in the past, but I do have faith in MILER to turn things around, but what I also believe that he is not going to turn it around over night.

I also believe that his inference that he and WHEADON will take an active role in future recruiting is a recognition that he is of the opinion that our previous recruiting has left a lot to be desired. I don't think that BECKS job is safe under MILLER.

I think that we will really see some big improvement at the end of 2004, but this will only be the beginning. As DIGGLER has said we may need to take a few steps backward and if MILLER can inspire the confidence in FRAWLEY to make the hard decison then I am all for it. If FRAWLEY is not the man to take us to the next level then I hope that MILLER will strategically position us to ensure that he is replaced by a suitable candidate, not just who ever is available at the time.

As I said in the past United we stand, but divided we fall. Lets not give them journalist anymore ammunition to label us as ferals.

Lets all be a little more thick skinned. After all I have read many posting about us tiger supporters supposedly being fickle and I personally find that more offensive.

Go Tigers and let this week be the beginning of a big year for the Yellow and Black.

 

[hutstar]

Fairly said Gustiger12.
I think in general we all get fired up pretty quickly, though i would add this. It is not round one for most of us. Its about round 70 for Frawley and round 540 for me. In round 40 odd of my Richmond career we won a premiership. I have been patient. I have watched with much anticipation the Tigers rebuild at least a dozen times. I still get excited about a new season. I look forward to a better year- long term success.
You are in my opinion 100% correct- 100% rational.
Being rational as a Tigers supporter, however, gets more difficult each year. I know you probably have been there as long as the the rest of us- but most of us lack your self control. I for one needed to be told to chill out though - and so it shall be.
Thanks for the chip.
hutstar.

 

[Rosy]

We all know there is some truth in what Greg said, but I still think the article is appaling. Strike 2.

We all know the club needs memberships to prosper, but how can memberships buy more players if the salary cap is full?

Not being able to be agressive in the trading market is due to admin stuffups, rather than supporters not buying memberships imo.

Why accuse members for a shortcoming Richmond has when it's nothing to do with members, instead of explaining what the $$$'s will really do for the club.

Why draw attention to 100 abusive e-mails rather than the many thousands who support the club.

The club is pissweak if they make a decision based on that kind of supporter.

I have sent an e-mail of protest to the club on one occassion, as did thousands of others the same week. I would do it again too for the same situation.
Knighter was treated like crap and nothing will convince me otherwise. I think people are well within their rights to let the club know their opinions.

This can also come back to the common complaint on here about e-mails etc not being replied to when people contact the club.

Make people feel the club want them to be part of it, not just as a source of revenue.

Some of Greg's points might be valid imo, but his delivery of them is terrible.

 

[DragicevicFan]

We keep hearing about this great 3 year plan from Danny, Greg Miller and everyone else at the club.

I have one question, WHAT IS THIS 3 YEAR PLAN AND WHAT DOES IT INVOLVE?

Maybe if we as supporters were given some sort of idea about how this plan is to work, and the steps involved, we might be less abusive and more understanding.

If we have a 3 year plan, short-term, build up our depth recruits such as Hudson, Houlihan, Nicholls etc should not have occured.

To me, a three year plan should be about building a good list, through solid drafting and some trading. Not filling our list with players in their mid twenties so we can have some depth.

If we have a team full of new players and finish near the bottom as Collingwood did a few years back, that is fine by me, just show me that we are building a team which will grow into a premiership threat.

We(the supporters) are prepared to sit down the bottom for a year or two, provided we are told that we are rebuilding, and to be patient.

A 3 year plan does not involve Rogers, King, Houlihan, Cameron or Duncan Kellaway. It might not involve Hyde, Newman or Pettifer either, but lets try these kids and see if they have got what it takes.

Build a team for the future, not a team for next week.

 

[MC24]

GT, I agree with you about supporting the Club and I also agree that it's going to take time for the changes to have an impact.

However, I'm not one for silent solidarity, especially if I can see that things are not right. I write letters and voice my opinion on matters that I think could be handled better.

Some of us have been buying memberships and supporting the Club for a long time now. How much more can some of us do?

It's time the Club stopped focusing where the problems are not and sorted out where they are. The fact that they come out and lambast supporters could suggest that they are not directing their attention on fixing the real issues.

However, I believe Greg Miller is the right man for the job at Richmond and he will ultimately change things for the better. He's a footy person and knows what's what.

I also believe Clinton Casey, although he started off rather slowly, has the Club's interests at heart. It's taken him some time to grasp the footy scene, but I think he's making a genuine effort to change things.

I'm more than happy to give people a go, especially when I can see that they are creating positive change.

If what it takes to shake our Club out of the mediocrity it's been living in all these years is for supporters to make some noise then I'm all for it. For too long, decisions have been made by people looking after their own interests. I want to know that the people there now are interested in the long-term success and stability of the Richmond Football Club and not just there to preen their own egos.

 

[Dean3]

After 22 years in the wilderness it is hard for Richmond supporters to be patient. But that is what we must be.

Miller was brought to the club on a mission. He wasn’t brought here to steer a club on the brink of success over the final hurdle. If any of us expected Miller to deliver a perfectly functioning football machine (from President to bootstudder) in 6 months, then obviously we’re being unrealistic.

I’m quite certain that he has discovered a proud club that has stagnated, lost it’s collective confidence and developed a “there’s always next year” loser culture. This culture extends from the bootstudder to the President, to the members, to the supporters. But our pride dictates that we continue to fight for the holy grail, even when it is clearly out of our reach. But our pride gets us to 9th, 10th, occasionally into the finals, tantalising us just enough to keep us fighting.

Miller knows that when the pride in our club ebbs away, then the club will ultimately implode. Supporters and members begin in-fighting, boards are dumped and coaches sacked. And the pattern starts again. This has been going on for 20 years. An outsider like Miller can see it. He can see that club needs to be shaken to its foundations for it to rebuild something of genuine strength. He is there to do the shaking. He is there to shake the supporters, members, players, coaches and admin staff out of a 20 year nightmare.

When are we going to wake up?

 

[johnson2richo2003]

very well said gus.
i believe miller is the right man for the job.he knows what success is all about and how to achieve that.
maybe his timing was out regarding him targeting us members.
he must realise that us members have the absolute right to voice our opinion good or bad.without us greg we wouldnt be a club.
i dont mind if we lose if the players give their 100% i mean in our darkest hour 88-92 we had a crap side but those players never gave up the ghost. that i can handle.
on sheer determination and team spirit the sides of 88-92 would cream this current crop.
thats where the problem is greg not the members.

 

[johnson2richo2003]

very well said gus.
i believe miller is the right man for the job.he knows what success is all about and how to achieve that.
maybe his timing was out regarding him targeting us members.
he must realise that us members have the absolute right to voice our opinion good or bad.without us greg we wouldnt be a club.
i dont mind if we lose if the players give their 100% i mean in our darkest hour 88-92 we had a crap side but those players never gave up the ghost. that i can handle.
on sheer determination and team spirit the sides of 88-92 would cream this current crop.
thats where the problem is greg not the members.

 

[Hungry]

I must admit I found no offence in the article and I think Miller has a valid point. As much as it makes us want to throw up when we hear about needing patience (and, yes, I've run out of patience too), he's right, because going straight for the coach's throat every time has only left us with this ongoing and painful cycle of hope-despair-newcoach-hope-despair etc.

He's also onto something with memberships. Less than 20,000 is woeful for a club our size and there's a chance that we are actually sitting on the cusp of things getting much much worse if people start losing the plot. Look at Carlton. Look at Richmond in the 80s. It can happen real quick, in fact, going down is a lot quicker than going 'up'.

The other thing is that, while memberships don't affect the salary cap, the more money the club has the more resources it has for good recruiting. Given the level playing field nowadays one of the only ways a club can gain an edge in this area is by having the resources to scour the country and look at kids all over.

By the way, the zip mouths, unzip wallets line is by Mike Sheahan - it's not a quote, it's Mike's take on it.

As a new poster I don't want to throw my weight around too much, but the negativity on this board right now is out of control. We've played one game. I'm p!ssed off too, but there are more to come, and it will take time to build the list.

And by the way, I hope that Fleming and Nicholls are guns - I'm sick of hearing them bagged when they haven't played a game. Ditto for Pettifer and Hyde - they're babies in the fooy world and deserve a chance.

 

[Koalalill]

The other thing is that, while memberships don't affect the salary cap, the more money the club has the more resources it has for good recruiting. Given the level playing field nowadays one of the only ways a club can gain an edge in this area is by having the resources to scour the country and look at kids all over.

A good point Hungry about the effect of memberships and recruiting. I have been searching for the right words on that one all morning. As the corporate $$$ become harder to come by the membership $$$ are going to be crucial. Sponsors don't grow on trees - they come and they go (ask Carlton, Bulldogs). We have been lucky to have had the same major sponsor for 14 years now but that agreement expires at the end of this season.

Bottom line I don't want to ever see the RFC in the same position of say the Bulldogs and only being able to pay 92.5% of the salary cap because we cannot generate the appropriate level of income. I think that is what was meant by Greg Miller's comment about getting the go ahead a recruit players. The salary cap will go up next year (granted only marginally) and the money needed has to come from somewhere even though the AFL are supposed to cover any increases in the salary cap. There are other costs involved in the signing of new players e.g relocation etc

 

[Harry]

3 year plan? Frawely and his coaching staff have had 4 years to implement some sort of plan. As yet they have implemented nothing that resembles a game plan.

Hopefully Miller can assert this hard and direct approach towards the coaching and recruiting staff and the players and weed out the ... um, weeds.

 

[MC24]

I must admit I found no offence in the article and I think Miller has a valid point.

He's also onto something with memberships. Less than 20,000 is woeful for a club our size and there's a chance that we are actually sitting on the cusp of things getting much much worse if people start losing the plot.

As a new poster I don't want to throw my weight around too much, but the negativity on this board right now is out of control.

Hi Hungry. I too think that 20,000 members, for a Club our size, is unacceptable. However, the reason I am not upset by it is because it gives the people at our footy Club some motivation to do something about the situation we're in.

We've always bailed them out in the past. Time now for them to earn some credibility and show us that they are serious about getting our Club back up where it belongs. No more short-sighted, quick-fixes to appease the masses for the here and now.

If they want to take their eye off the ball and focus their energies in the wrong direction, then they'll get found out. There is nothing that any one of us can do or say that can influence their decision-making, if they're fair dinkum about getting this Club going in the right direction.

Rather than being negative Hungry, I think it's pretty much constructive criticism. Just showing our true colours. And if they don't want to make things uncomfortable for themselves, in order to get their act into gear, then we'll do it for them. Is it the right way to go about things? Probably not. But if they can't see that we're actually on their side, then they have the problem - not us.

If we can see there is a clear direction, I'm sure, even though we may not like it, that we can accept success will take time. They're the ones who keep making promises they can't live up to. They expect that it's ok for them to continually taunt supporters, but that they shouldn't be criticised for not delivering what they said they would. They'd much rather make excuses for themselves.

I don't want excuses, reasons or justifications, I just want what they said we should expect.

We've tried being loyal, supportive, patient, unaffected, but now we're just plain sick and tired. For us, whatever it takes Hungry - we'll gladly do it. I love my footy Club, probably more than I should. Too many of us have just sat back and waited for things to get better. After two decades, they are not better. Yes they are and will get better, but right now some of us need to know that the focus of our Club is where it should be. If our pressure throws them off guard or changes their direction, then I suggest they are not the right people for the job.

We need people who will stand up to us, not buckle at the knees when we criticise.

When they can stand up to us then we'll know they're fair dinkum.

SHOW US YOUR TRUE COLOURS - LIKE WE'VE ALWAYS SHOWN OURS

 

[Hungry]

It sure is frustrating, isn't it? I think now the club finally realise this, and largely through what Greg Miller said back last year when he was first appointed: that Richmond have lost the respect of its members.

I have very little, if any, respect for the club right now, but guys like him have only been there five minutes and we should try not to lump them in with the last 20 years - they can only affect the future, not the past.

And for the first time in years, the club hasn't promised anything this year in terms of performance - there's been no tripe about finishing top four, becoming a force, awakening the sleeping giant and all the other rubbish we've put up with for years. Aside from an excited piece of waffled squeezed out by T.Greenberg, comparing our recruiting to North Melbourne in the 70s (fair dinkum!), they have toned things down markedly - Miller himself has said several times it might take years to get there.

No doubt Frawley will rightly be under pressure if there's no improvement over the year - but I have a bad feeling about sacking yet another coach and agree fully with Miller's view on that. It's our achilles heel. There is no way that kicking the ball 60m to Richo when he's 3 on 1 is part of the game plan - surely the players are to blame for this, it's become a bad habit and defining trait of Richmond through the 90s to now. The only way out is to build the list - unfortunately that isn't a quick fix.

 

[MC24]

Hungry, I'm not advocating sacking anyone. All I'm saying is that we just test the Club out to see who's there for the right reasons and who's there just for the ride.

I'm not one to tear up my membership or fling it at anyone's face, or leave abusive emails or telephone messages.

But I understand the frustration of those supporters who do. And if you want to look at this situation in a positive light, just realise that our supporters test the people who are running the Club.

How many people have been found out over the years. No disrespect to anyone for their efforts. But I've said it before, if your hearts not in the Richmond Football Club, it will find you out. Like it has a lot of people over the years.

We've never let the Club down in the past and I know we'll only ever let it fall as far as our hearts and minds can bear.

 

[mightytiges]

Well said Gus and Hungry and I agree with mostly what you both have said. However by the number of people upset by it I think most people agree the article was badly phrased and the description of the average Richmond supporter was too generalized. If the club believes it's heading in the right direction then 100 feral supporters out of 20000 members + ~380000 other supporters shouldn't get it's goat up. And when every supporter, media commentator and the other 15 clubs can pick our forward of centre game plan (or lack of one) to pieces then the football department should do something about changing it not become all defensive in its comments. I did see positives last friday night in the midfield however bombing it long to the talls might have worked in the 60's/70's but it doesn't now. You need to be more sophisticated than that when moving the ball forward - creating options, options and more options.