-
IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Meaningless disposals
- Thread starter Dyer'ere
- Start date
Just this weekend I marveled at how hard he crashes in to get the ball, then passes it straight to the opposition. Staging *smile* may as well never gone and got it in the first place! I didn't look at the stats, but reckon he would have had a disposal efficency of about 2%.
I’m not necessarily questioning the proposition of this thread but surely that stat is influenced by where you play.
You would hope SI/D ratio for a forward or someone who spends a lot of time forward would be much higher than someone playing in the back half
It’s indicative when comparing players but not definitive imo
I think the answer is 43 TOT. Going backwards is deducted from metres gained.
In Rd 18, 2010 Jack Watts had -34 metres gained from 27 disposals! (ESPN website)
Last edited:
Lol.
He may as well have been playing for the other team!
Although 34 m wasn’t much use to them either.
I once coached one of my kids in an under 8s Basketball game. It was hilarious. At the end of the game, the score was 2 points for each team. One of the kids on the other team scored both times. He put in the only score of the first half to give his team what appeared to be the match winner, until he got confused, dribbled the ball the wrong way and scored for us as well.
Have a look at Shai’s stats and you will have the answer of what an elite game looks like.
The AA side is political. So many players from each state and so on. Qld got Neale in after Andrews missed out.
But if you want to go into the meetings with a number that justifies your player it's Score Involvement.
Score Involvement is the new Supercoach points measure. It's the number you go to to judge a player's value, that is a player who plays mid or forward. To some extent defenders. Zorko's SI will be off the charts. Checking... 5 a game. Terrific number.
If you look back over the years and check which midfielder has the highest SI for the season you're pretty much looking at the best mid and the best player. Exception - Curnow and Greene were huge in 2023. SI is the simple measure for them too.
There are numbers that we can agree on. To make decisions that are as near as they can be to evidence-based. But a meanigless SI is a rare thing. SI. That's the stuff.
But if you want to go into the meetings with a number that justifies your player it's Score Involvement.
Score Involvement is the new Supercoach points measure. It's the number you go to to judge a player's value, that is a player who plays mid or forward. To some extent defenders. Zorko's SI will be off the charts. Checking... 5 a game. Terrific number.
If you look back over the years and check which midfielder has the highest SI for the season you're pretty much looking at the best mid and the best player. Exception - Curnow and Greene were huge in 2023. SI is the simple measure for them too.
There are numbers that we can agree on. To make decisions that are as near as they can be to evidence-based. But a meanigless SI is a rare thing. SI. That's the stuff.
We're talking about mids here. And the consensus number for good work is SI. So what is a meaningless disposal for a mid? Total Disposal - SI? Nobody thinks that. To have success you have to take risks and if you take risks you must have failures. Furthermore if you kick the ball clean into the eyes of your FF in the square and he plays on and falls over you were good. The disposal was good.
We do get numbers on turnover. And turnover is bad. That's not meaningless. It's bad.
Somewhere in between the SI and the Turnover is the almost SI which is rather good and the *smile* around with the ball which is rather bad. And in between all that is the pap meaningless disposal.
The meaningless disposal goes sideways or backwards. Yes, there are times that we have to do that. But they are not good times or bad times. They are broadly neutral. And so that disposal is neutral or meaningless. Sure, we have the ball. But its destiny is neutral. There could be 18 defenders in our arc. There probably are.
Players whose disposals are meaningless slow the ball. That's the chief characteristic. If Lachie Neale gets the ball at CB and flicks it to a charging Zorko that ball is going inside 50 and it's good play.
When Neale sniffs around the back pocket to receive the kick in it's meaningless. He'll go down the line and there's no Lachie Neale there to rove it. Bad football.
Players who get a lot of ball with low SI or Turnover are soaking up time. Sometimes that's good but in the main it's neutral.
We can be positive about this, and maybe agree on it, high disposals for an individual is neutral. Not good.
We do get numbers on turnover. And turnover is bad. That's not meaningless. It's bad.
Somewhere in between the SI and the Turnover is the almost SI which is rather good and the *smile* around with the ball which is rather bad. And in between all that is the pap meaningless disposal.
The meaningless disposal goes sideways or backwards. Yes, there are times that we have to do that. But they are not good times or bad times. They are broadly neutral. And so that disposal is neutral or meaningless. Sure, we have the ball. But its destiny is neutral. There could be 18 defenders in our arc. There probably are.
Players whose disposals are meaningless slow the ball. That's the chief characteristic. If Lachie Neale gets the ball at CB and flicks it to a charging Zorko that ball is going inside 50 and it's good play.
When Neale sniffs around the back pocket to receive the kick in it's meaningless. He'll go down the line and there's no Lachie Neale there to rove it. Bad football.
Players who get a lot of ball with low SI or Turnover are soaking up time. Sometimes that's good but in the main it's neutral.
We can be positive about this, and maybe agree on it, high disposals for an individual is neutral. Not good.
Couldn't agree more. Made me wonder what our 2024 SI numbers were, and I know you love a table...
Losing Baker, Bolton, Martin, Rioli and even Graham is going to cause some headaches. Where are our scoring chains coming from in 2025?
| Player | Age | Position | Matches | ScoreInvolvements |
| Liam Baker | 26 | Mid Forward | 18 | 5.6 |
| Shai Bolton | 26 | Mid Forward | 22 | 5.5 |
| Dustin Martin | 33 | Med Forward | 13 | 5.4 |
| Tim Taranto | 26 | Midfielder | 15 | 5.2 |
| Dion Prestia | 32 | Midfielder | 13 | 4.5 |
| Tom Lynch | 32 | Key Forward | 4 | 4.5 |
| Jacob Bauer | 22 | Key Forward | 3 | 4.0 |
| Jacob Hopper | 27 | Midfielder | 12 | 4.0 |
| Mykelti Lefau | 26 | Key Forward | 10 | 3.9 |
| Daniel Rioli | 27 | Med Defender | 23 | 3.9 |
| Jack Ross | 24 | Midfielder | 7 | 3.9 |
| Rhyan Mansell | 24 | Med Forward | 21 | 3.8 |
| Maurice Rioli | 22 | Med Forward | 9 | 3.8 |
| Jack Graham | 26 | Mid Forward | 14 | 3.7 |
| Seth Campbell | 20 | Med Forward | 21 | 3.7 |
| Toby Nankervis | 30 | Ruck | 21 | 3.7 |
| Marlion Pickett | 32 | Mid Forward | 13 | 3.5 |
| Thomson Dow | 23 | Midfielder | 17 | 3.4 |
| Hugo Ralphsmith | 23 | Midfielder | 18 | 3.2 |
| Noah Balta | 25 | Key Defender | 19 | 3.2 |
| Jacob Koschitzke | 24 | Key Forward | 14 | 3.1 |
| Jayden Short | 28 | Med Defender | 22 | 3.0 |
| Steely Green | 20 | Med Forward | 6 | 2.8 |
| Tyler Sonsie | 21 | Med Forward | 14 | 2.8 |
| Nick Vlastuin | 30 | Med Defender | 22 | 2.7 |
| Sam Naismith | 32 | Ruck | 3 | 2.7 |
| Samson Ryan | 24 | Ruck | 8 | 2.6 |
| Noah Cumberland | 23 | Med Forward | 7 | 2.6 |
| Kamdyn McIntosh | 30 | Midfielder | 22 | 2.5 |
| Tom Brown | 21 | Med Defender | 18 | 2.4 |
| Sam Banks | 21 | Midfielder | 15 | 2.3 |
| James Trezise | 22 | Med Defender | 7 | 2.0 |
| Kane McAuliffe | 19 | Midfielder | 9 | 1.9 |
| Nathan Broad | 31 | Med Defender | 22 | 1.8 |
| Ben Miller | 25 | Key Defender | 21 | 1.8 |
| Kaleb Smith | 20 | Med Defender | 4 | 1.5 |
| Matthew Coulthard | 23 | Med Forward | 2 | 1.5 |
| Dylan Grimes | 33 | Key Defender | 5 | 1.2 |
| Jacob Blight | 23 | Key Defender | 3 | 0.7 |
| Tylar Young | 26 | Key Defender | 9 | 0.6 |
| Josh Gibcus | 21 | Key Defender | 2 | 0.5 |
| Judson Clarke | 21 | Med Forward | 1 | 0.0 |
I've been working on disposal uselessness for some time now.
I am quite certain that any player who gets 50 disposals in a game has hurt his team. Likewise 40. But players who are above the level will just get the ball.
But here's the thing. If a player is full of hurt the other team will send numbers to stop him getting the ball. If he's not they'll let him get it. Nobody hurts with 40 disposals. SI measures hurt.
Dangerous players work dangerous areas. Teams defend dangerous areas.
Some of you will have heard of that #4 who used to be good at football. He was getting high 30s in 2016. Record high numbers. His team was getting flogged. Yes, Mr Martin got some high numbers in 2017 too. But not when it mattered.
I like to see high numbers in any category, all categories. BUt by and large I see consistently high disposal numbers as an indicator of an ineffective player or even a liability.
High Supercoach points can be an indicator of a liability. We can go through through Matthew (The Liability) Crouch's numbers as an example.
There are many other examples. Darcy Parish?
Meaningless disposals are neutral. Some players really hurt their teams. Disrupt structures.
I am quite certain that any player who gets 50 disposals in a game has hurt his team. Likewise 40. But players who are above the level will just get the ball.
But here's the thing. If a player is full of hurt the other team will send numbers to stop him getting the ball. If he's not they'll let him get it. Nobody hurts with 40 disposals. SI measures hurt.
Dangerous players work dangerous areas. Teams defend dangerous areas.
Some of you will have heard of that #4 who used to be good at football. He was getting high 30s in 2016. Record high numbers. His team was getting flogged. Yes, Mr Martin got some high numbers in 2017 too. But not when it mattered.
I like to see high numbers in any category, all categories. BUt by and large I see consistently high disposal numbers as an indicator of an ineffective player or even a liability.
High Supercoach points can be an indicator of a liability. We can go through through Matthew (The Liability) Crouch's numbers as an example.
There are many other examples. Darcy Parish?
Meaningless disposals are neutral. Some players really hurt their teams. Disrupt structures.
Agree. Although, you’ve got to find the ball regularly to be afflicted with the problem of useless disposals. Many players really struggle with that part of the game.
It’s probably easier to teach someone that gets 30 useless disposals how to be more effective than it is to teach someone that averages 10 disposals how to triple their output.
Scoring chains ? Those players leaving did not exactly succeed as we could barely muster 60 points a game.
The only stat that truly matters is the score on the scoreboard. We failed to crack 100 points in a game all season, which is pretty damning.
Score involvements are the key to winning games. Without Martin, Baker, Bolton and Rioli our score involvements are going to take a huge hit, unless a few players emerge to fill this sizeable void.
The match that solidified the legend of Dustin Martin was the 2017 Qualifying Final against Geelong, and he didn’t score a single point himself. About halfway through the third quarter, the two teams were level on 34 apiece. In the last 40 minutes of the game, Dusty had 12 touches- 11 were score involvements, most of them were direct score assists and the final score was 91 to 40.
That’s impact.
We need a huge injection of meaningful statistics at the next two drafts.
Score involvements are the key to winning games. Without Martin, Baker, Bolton and Rioli our score involvements are going to take a huge hit, unless a few players emerge to fill this sizeable void.
The match that solidified the legend of Dustin Martin was the 2017 Qualifying Final against Geelong, and he didn’t score a single point himself. About halfway through the third quarter, the two teams were level on 34 apiece. In the last 40 minutes of the game, Dusty had 12 touches- 11 were score involvements, most of them were direct score assists and the final score was 91 to 40.
That’s impact.
We need a huge injection of meaningful statistics at the next two drafts.
We really struggle without Lynch as he brings small forwards, tall forwards and mids into the SI window. We were just getting the ball swept away with Kosi and Ryan as they couldn't clunk enough marks. We need Fawcett and Gray to come on rapidly as Lynch is getting on and not a guarantee certainty to be there consistently with his injury history.
I like players who play like Daniel Rioli, CT. I'm an anti-S(e)mith(e) - worse than Hitler.
