Legend & Frawley

[RFC not KFC]

I find it an oddity that the Richmond Football Club at the end of 1991 chose to sack it's coach in the most disgarceful manner - no explanation or consideration. He woke up one morning to read it on the back page. This coach had FAR FAR less talent at his disposal and a football club on the brink of a great precipice due to inept fiscal management. It just so happens that this player won 5 Jack Dyer Medals, 4 times topped the club's goal kicking list, captained the club for a season, played 403 senior games and played in 5 premierships. I could go on but there's really no need.

Let's move on to the end of 2003. The Richmond Football Club have confirmed the the coach will be continuing in 2004. A coach who has the support of a club he never played for. A bloke who never played in a premiership. A clown at the biggest circus in town (read St Kilda F.C.).

Makes me sick in the guts.

 

[Dean3]

So sack Danny because KB was shafted ???

I'm afraid I don't follow.

 

[jackstar]

I totally agree

 

[RFC not KFC]

Having re-read my post I can see it's about as clear as Frawleys game plan.

All I was saying was that we we happy to shaft one of the all time greats of our club who had to operate in a much harder environment yet we're willing to stick by this joke who's had the same amount of time, a better playing list, has been given every possible off field resource and has not shown the slightest indication he can coach.

I dont reckon Spud can coach and I never have. The club should move him on ASAP. If we happy to bend KB over surely Spud deserves no more.

 

[MC24]

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Maybe KB was the victim of a Club who needed a change and to appease supporters. The treatment he copped was very ordinary and just highlights the level of desperation and perhaps even hopelessness that has surrounded the footy Club over the years, when such an option is considered.

As Richmond knows too well, changing the Coach is the quickest and easiest way to bring change and renewed hope than any other alternative and doesn't require too much effort either.

Isn't it about time we just got on with things and were bigger than that?

If either of Kevin Sheedy or Mick Malthouse had started their careers at Richmond, I just wonder how long they would have lasted.

Danny has a contract. It seems that unless he chooses to resign then he will be the Coach next year.

RFC not KFC, the resources he has been provided with have only come about this season. I don't know how anyone can expect things to be resolved in 1 or 4 seasons when they took far longer than that to deteriorate in the first place.

I doubt that Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan and Matthews became the coaches they are by always having the answers and never making a mistake.

But neither did they have the disadvantage of having to start their Coaching career at Richmond.

 

[RFC not KFC]

MC24,

COLD HARD FACTS

Matthews is one of the best 5 players ever to have played the game. In his 1st 4 full seasons his home & away record was to win 57.9% of games. He came form a succesful club. They won a flag the next year.

Pagan played in a Grand Final and just missed out on playing in a premiership team. His results as a coach at under 19 level were phenomenal. His record in his 1st 4 full seasons was to win 65% of home & away matches.

Malthouse played ina premiership team at the greatest club of all. He understood success. He went to a rabble and in his first 4 seasons his home & away record was 55.6%.

Sheedy played in 3 flags and won a b&f at the greatest club. He lived success. His 1st 4 seasons resulted in a 73.8% home and away record, a pre season premiership and a premiership.

Frawley played for the laughing stock of the league (at the time, now it's us). He couldn't spell premiership let alone play in one. His first 4 seasons (3 matches to go so it's fair to assume this figure will drop further) give us a 47% winning ratio.

There's a common thread here. The coaches you mention came from succesful clubs and if they hadn't played in a premiership they had at least coached teams to win flags in their learning process.

Spud saw no success as a player, was assistant at Collingwood when they were the worst they've ever been. His winning ratio is under 50%.

This bloke ain't ever going to coach an AFL team that wins a flag.

 

[MC24]

Which super Club did Tom Hafey come from? Did he have grand success at Richmond in his playing days?

We can throw up stats and facts and figures to back up our own arguments RFC not KFC, but the fact is that Danny is the Coach and will be so unless he resigns.

That's the only real fact that matters.

What you or I, or anybody else for that matter, think doesn't and neither it should.

If the people at the Club, who know better than us what goes on, can't make the right decisions, at the right time, then who can?

Even if we change the Coach, we are not going to get a Matthews, Sheedy, Malthouse or Pagan, are we?

I don't necessarily disagree with what you and others say, but I don't see the need for the constant criticism.

Danny's the Coach. That's a fact.

 

[RFC not KFC]

Tommy had a winning ratio of 68.7% in home & away games after his 1st 4 seasons. Oh, and we won 2 flags.
The figures seem to show that if you're over 55% in the first 4 years you can coach.

If Frawley went to Brisbane next year they'd be lucky to make the 8.

As for his contract - do you mean the one he signed that said bye bye if we didn't make the 8 this year?

 

[tigerman]

As for his contract - do you mean the one he signed that said bye bye if we didn't make the 8 this year?

His contract was also performance based.
Which would of made him inclined to get results not, recruit and develop young players.
To me, that has been one of the biggest mistakes about his contract.

 

[RFC not KFC]

He signed a performance based contract on the belief he could perform. Where are the young players he's had the chance to recruit and develop? Isn't is great to see Draga getting game time? Hasn't Pettifer stamped his mark on the game? Look how Fiora has blossomed into a regular top line performer. Hyde, Mills, Ednie etc etc.

Look how well Bowden and Hilton have come on under his tutelage

This joke of a bloke decided we were close to a flag two years ago and Houlihan, Hudson, Biddiscombe were going to bridge the gap.

What about his prodegee from Collingwood? He really identified top line talent in Clinton King and we're reaping the benefits now aren't we?

Keeping him another year will achieve nothing except a saving a payout. What happens at the end of next year when we're still not playing finals? Give him another contract?

The only mistake with Frawley and a contract is the fact we offered him one.

 

[MC24]

Tommy had a winning ratio of 68.7% in home & away games after his 1st 4 seasons. Oh, and we won 2 flags.
The figures seem to show that if you're over 55% in the first 4 years you can coach.

As for his contract - do you mean the one he signed that said bye bye if we didn't make the 8 this year?

If you read my post, I referred to his playing days, I know about the success he had as a Coach. You talked about the background of other coaches, I mentioned Tommy's playing days at Richmond, or is that not relevant now?

Whatever way the contract is or was worded, as it stands, Danny has a contract.

 

[nwonash]

The bottom line is, Danny Frawley is the coach of Richmond until at least the end of 2004. The Richmond board have confirmed this.
I believe we should all unite and give our support to Danny Frawley at least until the end of 2004.
You can all complain and *smile* all you want, the bottom line is that Danny is remaining at Richmond and you should all accept his.
I believe we as Richmond supporters give Danny some unneccessary presure. How you you perform at work is you are continously bagged by your peers?
In 2001, Danny took Richmond to one game away from making the Grand Final, I didnt hear anyone bagging Danny then. Remember, Mick Malthouse had Collingwood finish in the bottom two for the first two years he coached them. The Board had complete faith with Mick and in this third year, they made the Grand Final.
I'd like to know how many of you, bagged Danny Frawley after round 8 ? Can anyone remember ? We were 6-2 and sitting second on the ladder. I bet none of you were bagging Danny then.
Yeah, we've only won one game since, however, Danny wears his heart on his sleeve and remains loyal to Richmond. Give the poor guy a break.

 

[RFC not KFC]

MC24 - if you read my post you'll understand there are two criteria I'm working on. One being pre-coaching, the other is the 1st 4 years. Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan, Matthews fill both criteria. Tommy fills one.

Spud fills zip, zero, zilch, nicht, nought and nothing.

 

[MC24]

MC24 - if you read my post you'll understand there are two criteria I'm working on. One being pre-coaching, the other is the 1st 4 years. Sheedy, Malthouse, Pagan, Matthews fill both criteria. Tommy fills one.

Spud fills zip, zero, zilch, nicht, nought and nothing.

So, because Danny doesn't fit YOUR criteria, he doesn't deserve a go.

And, under your criteria, you would never have given Tommy Hafey a go then either, because he had an unsuccessful playing background. Just like Danny.

Except Danny probably played a few more games and represented his State.

 

[RFC not KFC]

nwonash - as I told you on the other thread I've been bagging Frawley since the day they signed him.

Before you use Malthouse and Collingwood as an example read the above.

As for the lame excuse we put pressure on him. Not worth response.

The only break Danny Frawley deserves is a broken contract.

I'm convinced people like you wouldn't complain if you paid for a Mercedes but got delivered a Skoda.

 

[nwonash]

He signed a performance based contract on the belief he could perform. Where are the young players he's had the chance to recruit and develop? Isn't is great to see Draga getting game time? Hasn't Pettifer stamped his mark on the game? Look how Fiora has blossomed into a regular top line performer. Hyde, Mills, Ednie etc etc.

Okay, what about the following players ;

Chaffey has blossomed under Frawley and continues to impress

Coughlan no doubt our best recruit along with Ottens. Coughlan will more than like win our best & fairest. Improved out of mind, out of sight.

Hall plays will his heart and again a big improver. Unfortunately, hit by injuries this year.

Johnson our best recuit his year. Should finish in the top two of our best & fairest

Newman his kid is our most improved player this year. Frawley had deleveloped his kid so quickly. A certainly to finish in the top 5 in our best & fairest.

Rodan classy kid whom is on the improve and still learning the ropes. Can play no doubt about it.

Zantuck hasnt Frawley made his kid into one of our best defenders. Gives up height and weight advantage each week and does a great job

Tivendale when he is on song, we win. Another one to Frawleys credit

Stafford set the world on fire in the first half of the year, injury took its toll. Great recruit. Frawley has breathed new life into Stafford, playing great football.

Krakouer class written all over him. Still developing but I bet the Kangas roe not drafting him

All of the above are in our better players and have certainly developed under Frawley.

 

[MC24]

I'm convinced people like you wouldn't complain if you paid for a Mercedes but got delivered a Skoda.

We would happily complain if we knew it would get us somewhere.

And some know when to criticise and when it's time to support people.

 

[nwonash]

He signed a performance based contract on the belief he could perform. Where are the young players he's had the chance to recruit and develop? Isn't is great to see Draga getting game time? Hasn't Pettifer stamped his mark on the game? Look how Fiora has blossomed into a regular top line performer. Hyde, Mills, Ednie etc etc.

Okay, what about the following players ;

Chaffey has blossomed under Frawley and continues to impress

Coughlan no doubt our best recruit along with Ottens. Coughlan will more than like win our best & fairest. Improved out of mind, out of sight.

Hall plays will his heart and again a big improver. Unfortunately, hit by injuries this year.

Johnson our best recuit his year. Should finish in the top two of our best & fairest

Newman this kid is our most improved player this year. Frawley had deleveloped his kid so quickly. A certainly to finish in the top 5 in our best & fairest.

Rodan classy kid whom is on the improve and still learning the ropes. Can play no doubt about it.

Zantuck hasnt Frawley made his kid into one of our best defenders. Gives up height and weight advantage each week and does a great job

Tivendale when he is on song, we win. Another one to Frawleys credit

Stafford set the world on fire in the first half of the year, injury took its toll. Great recruit. Frawley has breathed new life into Stafford, playing great football.

Krakouer class written all over him. Still developing but I bet the Kangas roe not drafting him

All of the above are in our better players and have certainly developed under Frawley.

 

[RFC not KFC]

MC24 - My criteria is not about signing coaches. It's about knowing when they cant coach.

How much of a go do you want to give him? I would have thought 4 years was a fair crack of the whip.

Please, please let me know where the cut-off point is. If we win a flag next year I'll look like a goose and wear it with a bloody big grin. If we miss the finals next year with Spud the Dud running the show what's your plan then?

 

[Dean3]

After the clean out this year, the main criteria next year should be development of the team, not making finals RFC not KFC. We can't have it both ways — clean out the list and then expect to be playing finals straight away.