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IMPORTANT // Please look after your loved ones, yourself and be kind to others. If you are feeling that the world is too hard to handle there is always help - I implore you not to hesitate in contacting one of these wonderful organisations Lifeline and Beyond Blue ... and I'm sure reaching out to our PRE community we will find a way to help. T.
Or being in favour of it for certain crimes could simply be indicative of one's absolute contempt for those crimes and the people who are willing to carry those crimes out. Like I say, theoretically, I'm not morally opposed to the principal of the death penalty for certain disgusting crimes (as outlined in my previous post).jb03 said:
Pragmatically though, we'll never see a 100% accurate court process, so it means the consequence of error is too great. That is my one and only reservation. Some might call this a heartless view. However we're not talking putting to death angels. And on the flipside, I have nothing but absolute heart break for the victims and their family/friends of such perpetrators.
I’m too sadistic for the death penalty. I prefer to see people like Gargasoulos, Bryant, Adrian Bayley and this latest POS simply be locked up for life in a cell with a bed and a toilet. No interaction with anyone (bar the guards), no tv, no books, no gym etc and be served the same food every day.
Panthera Tigris said:
So was there any doubt on Bryant? Knight? Neither deserve any right to live IMO. Could care less if they had mental problems that resulted in their crimes.
And disagree giving them the death penalty makes us just as bad as them in any way.
Maybe the surviving victims/families could dictate if the death penalty is to be applied?
I don't disagree with your inclinations Jazz. As I say, from a moral standpoint (totally theoretically speaking) I think the examples you give absolutely deserved to die for their sins. And indeed, some of the appalling child rapes and murders we sometimes see, I wouldn't be opposed to sliding a brown paper bag of cash to the right people, to make sure the perpetrator didn't survive prison unscathed, if it were one of my own kids, family or close friends who had been affected. So we're on the same page there.MD Jazz said:
What I was meaning in a pragmatic sense though, is that there is no such concept in law as a sliding scale of guilt. It's simply guilty or not guilty. So you can't really make different rules on the degree of guilt. This all stems from the central premise, the presumption of innocence. Under this framework, any doubt at all means the defendant cannot be found guilty. Problem is, we know innocent people have been found guilty at times, even though a court apparently had no doubts.
jb03 said:
That was my perspective for many years. But some people commit acts that are devoid of humanity, or are missing something integral to humanity.
Re: Is PC a euphemism for 'nice?
I don't believe that killing a woman is any worse than killing a man.
The camp that says it are unconsciously arguing that either somehow the male victim deserved it or should have been able to defend himself.
I will say that the sexual violation of women that often precedes the murder does add to horror, no argument there.
And as long as those who lobby for capital punishment do so on the grounds of vengeance that's fine because they can't say it's about deterrence. Oh that's right there are no murders in China or 30 odd states in the US (and no crime at all in New York since they cracked down on graffiti and broken windows in the 1980s if you believe the simpleton press here)
I don't believe that killing a woman is any worse than killing a man.
The camp that says it are unconsciously arguing that either somehow the male victim deserved it or should have been able to defend himself.
I will say that the sexual violation of women that often precedes the murder does add to horror, no argument there.
And as long as those who lobby for capital punishment do so on the grounds of vengeance that's fine because they can't say it's about deterrence. Oh that's right there are no murders in China or 30 odd states in the US (and no crime at all in New York since they cracked down on graffiti and broken windows in the 1980s if you believe the simpleton press here)
Same here. Alcatraz style, but......Julian Knight lives in a penthouse compared to the homeless.tigertim said:
Re: Is PC a euphemism for 'nice?
Why does it have to be vengeance? Why can't it be about justice, according to the principle of an eye for an eye?
And yeah you can cite some newfangled studies that claim the death penalty isn't a deterrent, influenced as they are by the modern lefty perspective. But a famous study by Ehrlich found that seven lives were saved through deterrence for every criminal that was executed. What is inarguable is that murderers who are not deterred by the death penalty, are not deterred by the absemce of it.
22nd Man said:
Why does it have to be vengeance? Why can't it be about justice, according to the principle of an eye for an eye?
And yeah you can cite some newfangled studies that claim the death penalty isn't a deterrent, influenced as they are by the modern lefty perspective. But a famous study by Ehrlich found that seven lives were saved through deterrence for every criminal that was executed. What is inarguable is that murderers who are not deterred by the death penalty, are not deterred by the absemce of it.
Re: Is PC a euphemism for 'nice?
Who is arguing otherwise re women/men? Violence against women is abbhorent, sexualisde violence even more so.
Generally men are physically stronger, in some ways that comes with extra responsibility not to in any way make women feel physically intimidated. To use some sort of implied threat of hurt in any way is simply not on.
re death penalty, I could care less about it being about deterrence, and agree it does not work in this way. I simply would prefer the likes of Bryant etc are removed from the face of the earth. Whether that is vengeance or not I don't care, for me they do not deserve further life.
22nd Man said:
Who is arguing otherwise re women/men? Violence against women is abbhorent, sexualisde violence even more so.
Generally men are physically stronger, in some ways that comes with extra responsibility not to in any way make women feel physically intimidated. To use some sort of implied threat of hurt in any way is simply not on.
re death penalty, I could care less about it being about deterrence, and agree it does not work in this way. I simply would prefer the likes of Bryant etc are removed from the face of the earth. Whether that is vengeance or not I don't care, for me they do not deserve further life.
The same question asked of me..........Theoretically speaking, if it were one of my family or friends who were the victim of some kind of perverted, sexually violent rapist and/or murderer. I would be perfectly happy to pull the trigger. In fact I'd be happy to pull it more than once and empty the entire magazine.Giardiasis said:
The irony is, the left leaning advocates would call this trait in me a sign of "toxic masculinity". When in fact it's my response to, and representative of my disgust for such abhorrent crimes that are attributed to so called "toxic masculinity". This is where there is much confusion over masculinity. The latest trendy inference is that masculinity is nearly always bad, femininity is always unquestionably good. When in fact a society needs a good balance of both. Masculine traits are indeed needed to safeguard and protect a society from uncivilised elements. Such an interpretation and application of masculinity is closely linked to the concept of chivalry.
True Ian..... "Happy to" probably not the right turn of phrase. Wouldn't necessarily make me happy. But I wouldn't feel much guilt or remorse for doing it. Put it this way, I'd feel less remorse than stepping on a jack-jumper or a spider. In fact I prefer putting a spider outside than killing it. Not like they've done anything to deserve it. A perverted, violent rapist, paedophile or murderer however.........
Re: Is PC a euphemism for 'nice?
Jeez, imagine what the murder rate in the US would be without the death penalty then? ...far outLeeToRainesToRoach said:
