Indigenous History Debate

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Question is whether PRE is going to be a forum where cancel culture rules and a minority can continue to smear posters over an opinion.

Will likely be too hard a task for moderators to arbitrate on every disagreement as to whether a perspective fits the definition of "racist". Suggest people focus on discussing the opinion itself instead of resorting to personal attacks which generates ill-will.

 

[Baloo]

Not hard to spot the racists here on PRE. Calling anyone Chinese slanty-Eyed is a good start.

 

[AngryAnt]

Yep, saying blatantly racist shyt makes you a racist in my book.

Remember Lee's classic post where he said only "official" histories should be taught as teaching what actually happened would only stir people up.

So much for truth, facts and freedom of speech.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Not hard to spot the racists here on PRE. Calling anyone Chinese slanty-Eyed is a good start.

It was a reference to Andrews' Chinese loyalties, but take it as you will. How is it that Australia Day celebrations have been cancelled in Victoria, but Chinese New Year is good to go?

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

If anything "racist" has been posted in the Stack thread, please quote for clarity. I've seen numerous vague allegtions of racism but nobody actually citing anything.

 

[MD Jazz]

nothing to debate here.

black fellas lived on this continent quite successfully for around 100,000 years

230 odd years ago, white fellas landed, declared the joint vacant,

stole their land, hunted, shot, raped, poisoned, enslaved them.

brutal, sadistic massacres. child stealing, sickness. poor pay. segregation. imprisonment. alcoholism. diabetes. suicide.

Deficit Theory and Social Darwinism has been disproven, discredited and disgraced.

and that's really all the racists, both closeted and open, as well as the ill-informed who inadvertently perpetuate racism through these ideas, have to hang their hat on.

so,

there is no debate. this thread is racist in itself.

Its like an Essendon or a Collingwood fan site starting a

How Many Norm Smiths has Dustin Martin Won Debate thread.

*smile* joke

So how do we move forward from here?

 

[AngryAnt]

It was a reference to Andrews' Chinese loyalties, but take it as you will. How is it that Australia Day celebrations have been cancelled in Victoria, but Chinese New Year is good to go?

Calling Chinese people "squinty", even if they are CCP is still racist bro. Even if you own a lot of books about Hendrix.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Calling Chinese people "squinty", even if they are CCP is still racist bro. Even if you own a lot of books about Hendrix.

A few people are peeved at how the the Stack thread has gone. Any posts in particular you're aggrieved about?

 

[AngryAnt]

A few people are peeved at how the the Stack thread has gone. Any posts in particular you're aggrieved about?

Why not ask the people who are aggrieved? I'm sure they can speak for themselves.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Why not ask the people who are aggrieved? I'm sure they can speak for themselves.

The floor is open.

 

[DavidSSS]

All people share a history of racism/tribalism/cultism and just about every other ism you can think of but most of those alive today are not responsible for it and do not have to accept any accountability for it.

Ok, no worries. Now, since you, and I, benefit every day from the racism of the past by the very fact that we get to live in this country, I expect you will be emigrating immediately.

We all benefit from past racism and from the fact we took this country by force, treated the locals as "wildlife", denied them the vote until 1966 and the disadvantages Aboriginal Australians face continue to this day. That which we benefit from we cannot fail to take responsibility for.

DS

PS: Not surprising the resident right wing supposed libertarian supports a responsibility-free position, sums up their ideology really.

 

[Baloo]

It was a reference to Andrews' Chinese loyalties, but take it as you will.

I'll take it as it is. Racist Comment 101.

As someone that's had to deal with racism, though passive racism personally and I can cop it, but now watching my kids deal with it all the time, you become quite adept at detecting racist attitudes very quickly.

There's plenty of examples of clearly racist actions and statements here on PRE, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and put it down to ignorance. But then there are others who are just closet white supremacists, even if they don't accept it themselves.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

I'll take it as it is. Racist Comment 101.

As someone that's had to deal with racism, though passive racism personally and I can cop it, but now watching my kids deal with it all the time, you become quite adept at detecting racist attitudes very quickly.

There's plenty of examples of clearly racist actions and statements here on PRE, but I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt and put it down to ignorance. But then there are others who are just closet white supremacists, even if they don't accept it themselves.

Do you have any examples from this thread you'd like to cite?

 

[eZyT]

So how do we move forward from here?

Certainly not easily, but we have to make genuine attempt.

Black Fellas produced a very comprehensive and reasonable way forward called

The Uluru Statement from the Heart

Home - Uluru Statement from the Heart

ulurustatement.org.

check it out as a starting point.

Its beautifully simple.

they basically want a self-determination structure back, enshrined in the consitution, like ATSIC that Howard dismantled.

then I think white fellas have to accept there will be a period of mistakes, inefficiency, controversy and corruption

, decreasing over time, as black fellas build capacity.

Much as there was following Federation (an ongoing process).

then we move forward, build mutual respect, and become a greater nation.

As a practical significant first step as a nation toward reconciliation,

I would suggest we shelve the $1b war museum plan

and build a Frontier War Memorial, be it in Canberra or at Myall Creek

Myall Creek massacre

1838: Myall Creek massacre, New South Wales

www.nma.gov.au

, detailing the massacre of aboriginal people during colonisation

Richard Flanagan estimated 60,000 aboriginal people were massacred in Queensland alone. This is equal to the number of Australians killed in WWI.

Richard Flanagan

Richard Flanagan was born in Tasmania in 1961. His novels Death of a River Guide, The Sound of One Hand Clapping, Gould’s Book of Fish, The Unknown Terrorist, Wanting and The Narrow Road to the Deep North have received numerous honours and are published in 42 countries. He won the Man Booker...

www.npc.org.au

Some parity in us remembering these significant horrendous events in our history would be a good start IMO.

 

[Althom]

Ok, no worries. Now, since you, and I, benefit every day from the racism of the past by the very fact that we get to live in this country, I expect you will be emigrating immediately.

We all benefit from past racism and from the fact we took this country by force, treated the locals as "wildlife", denied them the vote until 1966 and the disadvantages Aboriginal Australians face continue to this day. That which we benefit from we cannot fail to take responsibility for.

DS

PS: Not surprising the resident right wing supposed libertarian supports a responsibility-free position, sums up their ideology really.

You "expect"?
Take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror and then give yourself an uppercut.
No one on the entire planet cares about what you "expect"
If you feel so much guilt about what has happened in the past feel free to hand over everything you own as recompense.
"resident right wing supposed libertarian" Always with the labels; based on your own bigotry.

 

[Coburgtiger]

Not hard to spot the racists here on PRE. Calling anyone Chinese slanty-Eyed is a good start.

What about saying 'terrorism is only done by Muslims'?

 

[Sintiger]

There is a massive difference between accepting personal responsibility and acknowledgement and acceptance of history. Many don’t recognise that difference and combine the two.
If I hit someone I have to accept a personal responsibility for hitting someone but that is not what most indigenous leaders want. They want all Australians to accept the history of what this country did to its indigenous people, to acknowledge it and to teach it.
Seems perfectly reasonable to me but all of us should also acknowledge what that history means to them, how for many of them and their families it is also a lived history and what their culture means especially in relation to the connection to land.

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

They want all Australians to accept the history of what this country did to its indigenous people, to acknowledge it and to teach it.

That's fine, but not in a context of running down Western civilisation or this country in particular. Let's not go pretending that people today are morally superior to those past.

 

[Sintiger]

That's fine, but not in a context of running down Western civilisation or this country in particular. Let's not go pretending that people today are morally superior to those past.

Just tell the truth

 

[LeeToRainesToRoach]

Just tell the truth

Sure. But history without context is bunk.